Ladakh Flash Point

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Bright Sword

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caudaceus said:
I thought the sudden Israel GCC normalizations announced recently are supposed to build a united front against Iran. Don't forget Qatar as well.
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Not necessarily. Turkey and China have full diplomatic relations with Israel and do all the EU countries. That still doesn't prevent them from dealing with Iran and doing business despite the sanctions. The recent UN proposal to extend sanctions on Iran was defeated with only the Dominican Republic backing the continuation of sanctions.
Iran is very likely to be part of CPEC.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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Bright Sword said:
Absolutely.
The biggest and newest "elephant" in the room to emerge is Russia.
The Indian social media and hyper nationalist Hindi language electronic media have now started hammering Russia because of its perceived neutrality in the Sino-Indian conflict.
Russia is fast becoming India's whipping boy because it perceives itself as "you are either with us or against us" great power.
Russia has irked India because of the following;
1. Neutrality in the Sino-Indian conflict
2. Interest in the CPEC . Not entirely clear what this is but it is enough to make India really upset.
3. Trade relations in Yuan not dollars with China. Russia trades with India in dollars.,
4.Neutrality in the South China sea dispute. ( though in fact Russia has put its Pacific Command on a low level alert).
5. Supply of RD-93 engines for Pakistan's JF17 fighter.( A VERY sore point)
6.Supply of Mil 17 and Mil 35 helicopters.
7.War games and joint exercises with Pakistan.
8. Assistance ( offered but not given yet) to Pakistan in the oil, gas, steel and power sectors.

The China Russia relations are being keenly watched in India and there is a growing disappointment in the lackluster support from Russia.
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Russia should cutoff S-400 supplies to India if they keep on yapping.
 
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Bright Sword

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siegecrossbow said:
Russia should cutoff S-400 supplies to India if they keep on yapping.
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Which may happen.
Russia is already dragging its feet on delivery claiming the Corona Pandemic is delaying their production. Also a more even handed anti-Russian administration after US elections could impose CATSA restrictions on India if it attempts to buy Russian arms. The Indian right wing has a substantial lobby in Washington that has kept India from getting the same treatment as Turkey over the S-400 purchase but their political orientation towards the Republicans and President Trump
has been noted by the Democrats. If the incumbent president loses then the lobby would have to switch sides and court the new administration to avoid getting sanctioned by a law passed under the very administration they once supported. The S-400s may not come after all.
Ironic !
 
C

caudaceus

Senior Member
Registered Member
Bright Sword said:
Absolutely.
The biggest and newest "elephant" in the room to emerge is Russia.
The Indian social media and hyper nationalist Hindi language electronic media have now started hammering Russia because of its perceived neutrality in the Sino-Indian conflict.
Russia is fast becoming India's whipping boy because it perceives itself as "you are either with us or against us" great power.
Russia has irked India because of the following;
1. Neutrality in the Sino-Indian conflict
2. Interest in the CPEC . Not entirely clear what this is but it is enough to make India really upset.
3. Trade relations in Yuan not dollars with China. Russia trades with India in dollars.,
4.Neutrality in the South China sea dispute. ( though in fact Russia has put its Pacific Command on a low level alert).
5. Supply of RD-93 engines for Pakistan's JF17 fighter.( A VERY sore point)
6.Supply of Mil 17 and Mil 35 helicopters.
7.War games and joint exercises with Pakistan.
8. Assistance ( offered but not given yet) to Pakistan in the oil, gas, steel and power sectors.

The China Russia relations are being keenly watched in India and there is a growing disappointment in the lackluster support from Russia.
Click to expand...
Is it possible for India to move to the Western camp completely?
Bright Sword said:
Which may happen.
Russia is already dragging its feet on delivery claiming the Corona Pandemic is delaying their production. Also a more even handed anti-Russian administration after US elections could impose CATSA restrictions on India if it attempts to buy Russian arms. The Indian right wing has a substantial lobby in Washington that has kept India from getting the same treatment as Turkey over the S-400 purchase but their political orientation towards the Republicans and President Trump
has been noted by the Democrats. If the incumbent president loses then the lobby would have to switch sides and court the new administration to avoid getting sanctioned by a law passed under the very administration they once supported. The S-400s may not come after all.
Ironic !
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That means India can get F-35s
 
B

Bright Sword

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Registered Member
caudaceus said:
Is it possible for India to move to the Western camp completely?

That means India can get F-35s
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Yes, if it complies with the "pound of flesh" such a move will entail.
India can't have its cake and eat it too
-Economically : Direct foreign investment in ALL sectors including consumer, agricultural , services, education should be allowed etc.
So in it should be possible for Bechtel to buy out Tatas in the Bombay Stock exchange and Big Bazaar would be bought out by Walmart or Target. Similar for railways, airlines etc.
Educationally India would have to allow mergers with western universities promoting a secular Judeo Christian curriculum and the Jesuits would be back in full force raising a fresh crop of secular nationalists.
The anti-conversion laws and "freedom" of religion acts would need
to be repealed. Right wing administrations in Europe and the West are backed by Evangelicals and Christian Mission groups wanting to spread the word. They are annoyed with the current Indian administration for blocking their activities.

So "Yes" India can move closer to the West if it becomes western, economically, and culturally. It can't remain with a Medieval mindset.

Oh the F-35s. Yes, India can certainly get them if doesn't buy S-400s or more Rafaels.
 
O

Orthan

Senior Member
Bright Sword said:
The Indian social media and hyper nationalist Hindi language electronic media have now started hammering Russia because of its perceived neutrality in the Sino-Indian conflict.
Click to expand...

The media perhabs, but the indian political class doesnt want or needs to alienate russia, even if they buy more military equipment from the western countries, and less from russia. Russia will keep neutral towards china. I think thats enough for the political class in india.
 
D

discspinner

Junior Member
Registered Member
Bright Sword said:
Yes, if it complies with the "pound of flesh" such a move will entail.
India can't have its cake and eat it too
-Economically : Direct foreign investment in ALL sectors including consumer, agricultural , services, education should be allowed etc.
So in it should be possible for Bechtel to buy out Tatas in the Bombay Stock exchange and Big Bazaar would be bought out by Walmart or Target. Similar for railways, airlines etc.
Educationally India would have to allow mergers with western universities promoting a secular Judeo Christian curriculum and the Jesuits would be back in full force raising a fresh crop of secular nationalists.
The anti-conversion laws and "freedom" of religion acts would need
to be repealed. Right wing administrations in Europe and the West are backed by Evangelicals and Christian Mission groups wanting to spread the word. They are annoyed with the current Indian administration for blocking their activities.

So "Yes" India can move closer to the West if it becomes western, economically, and culturally. It can't remain with a Medieval mindset.

Oh the F-35s. Yes, India can certainly get them if doesn't buy S-400s or more Rafaels.
Click to expand...

Why would Russia side with India? These guys are f***ing idiots.
 
B

Bright Sword

Junior Member
Registered Member
Orthan said:
The media perhabs, but the indian political class doesnt want or needs to alienate russia, even if they buy more military equipment from the western countries, and less from russia. Russia will keep neutral towards china. I think thats enough for the political class in india.
Click to expand...
It is to be seen if Russian neutrality remains consistent.
Realistically this is what the West wants India to do :

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B

Bright Sword

Junior Member
Registered Member
siegecrossbow said:
It’s a major market for Russian made military equipment.
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Not really.
China buys substantial amounts of military hardware from Russia and more importantly technologies to design and build these itself, As an example joint Russian Chinese research on high performance jet engines for fighter aircraft is significant Additionally China and Russia have increasingly switched their trade to Yuans instead of dollars particularly for the gas and oil China imports from Russia. China and Russia also have a long border on which they earlier had differences but which have now been resolved.
In short China is MORE important to Russia than India.
 
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