Ladakh Flash Point

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Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
If you don't have photos, don't even suggest it. If you do have photos from decent sources, at least offer PM links of something rather than mentioning it. It's a big claim to make and let people think there may be more to the fighting than formally presented by both sides.
It's not me who don't want to post the photo, it's the source in that weibo. I'm just a translator.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Chinese government spokespeople are always very precise and careful with their use of language. As such, I think it is significant that they consistently used the turn ‘fired warning shots at’ PLA soldiers. This is consistent both in English and China, hence it’s not a simple translation artefact but a deliberate choice of wording.

Dissecting the implications makes it clear as to why this subtle but important distinction is made.

If the Indians just fired warning shots into the air, there would not need to be an ‘at’. Furthermore, it would be clear that those are indeed warning shots.

The most realistic and plausible scenario I can think of for firing warning shots at PLA soldiers is if Indian troops fired at their feet/in front of them to try to dissuade them from advancing.

The significance of this is that from afar, it would not have been clear at all that those were warning shots.

So if you were a PLA heavy machine gunner/sniper tasked with providing overwatch for PLA soldiers moving in on an Indian position, you see an Indian soldier level his rifle at your comrades and then there is a muzzle flash followed by the sound of rifle fire, you are going to light them the hell up, as per standing orders to not fire unless fired upon first, and not wait to see if any of your guys fall to any fire before replying.

I think this is potentially what happened here.

Another Indian hothead unable to hold his nerve does something monumentally idiotic after watching too many Bollywood BS films and getting all riled up by Indian BS fake news; immediately wins Darwin Award, and may have taken a lot of his comrades with him.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Chinese government spokespeople are always very precise and careful with their use of language. As such, I think it is significant that they consistently used the turn ‘fired warning shots at’ PLA soldiers. This is consistent both in English and China, hence it’s not a simple translation artefact but a deliberate choice of wording.

Dissecting the implications makes it clear as to why this subtle but important distinction is made.

If the Indians just fired warning shots into the air, there would not need to be an ‘at’. Furthermore, it would be clear that those are indeed warning shots.

The most realistic and plausible scenario I can think of for firing warning shots at PLA soldiers is if Indian troops fired at their feet/in front of them to try to dissuade them from advancing.

The significance of this is that from afar, it would not have been clear at all that those were warning shots.

So if you were a PLA heavy machine gunner/sniper tasked with providing overwatch for PLA soldiers moving in on an Indian position, you see an Indian soldier level his rifle at your comrades and then there is a muzzle flash followed by the sound of rifle fire, you are going to light them the hell up, as per standing orders to not fire unless fired upon first, and not wait to see if any of your guys fall to any fire before replying.

I think this is potentially what happened here.

Another Indian hothead unable to hold his nerve does something monumentally idiotic after watching too many Bollywood BS films and getting all riled up by Indian BS fake news; immediately wins Darwin Award, and may have taken a lot of his comrades with him.

It's clear this is actually potentially how the eventual fighting will get started. By muddying the lines of who fired towards who and whether or what the shots were intended to achieve. The line is getting murkier which suits both sides in all honesty. Both are pointing the fingers at the other.
 

EblisTx

Junior Member
Chinese government spokespeople are always very precise and careful with their use of language. As such, I think it is significant that they consistently used the turn ‘fired warning shots at’ PLA soldiers. This is consistent both in English and China, hence it’s not a simple translation artefact but a deliberate choice of wording.

Dissecting the implications makes it clear as to why this subtle but important distinction is made.

If the Indians just fired warning shots into the air, there would not need to be an ‘at’. Furthermore, it would be clear that those are indeed warning shots.

The most realistic and plausible scenario I can think of for firing warning shots at PLA soldiers is if Indian troops fired at their feet/in front of them to try to dissuade them from advancing.

The significance of this is that from afar, it would not have been clear at all that those were warning shots.

So if you were a PLA heavy machine gunner/sniper tasked with providing overwatch for PLA soldiers moving in on an Indian position, you see an Indian soldier level his rifle at your comrades and then there is a muzzle flash followed by the sound of rifle fire, you are going to light them the hell up, as per standing orders to not fire unless fired upon first, and not wait to see if any of your guys fall to any fire before replying.

I think this is potentially what happened here.

Another Indian hothead unable to hold his nerve does something monumentally idiotic after watching too many Bollywood BS films and getting all riled up by Indian BS fake news; immediately wins Darwin Award, and may have taken a lot of his comrades with him.

If it is the case, then why Indian media is so quiet.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
If it is the case, then why Indian media is so quiet.

Probably because either all their guys were killed and captured, so they don’t know what to report; and/or this was such a catastrophe the Indian leadership gave them orders to bury the story.

If it was reveal a load of Indian troops got blasted to red mist and paste by Chinese anti aircraft machinegun fire, the Indian leadership will be stuck between a very big rock and a very sharp hard place. They know they will loose a stand up fight against China hands down, but doing nothing would cost them dearly politically.

This is why India’s whole strategy is retarded. They keep upping the stakes knowing they have a hand full of shit and always go surprised-Pikachu-face when China calls with a hand full of aces.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I really hope the Indian people demand Modi come clean and put him accountable to everything - lost land, PLA taking up half of India's claims, denying things, lying about things, and failing the Indian nation so badly. It could force his hand and actually send Indian military to its destruction with properly fighting China, no restraints. It'll school those bhakts and show the Indian military truly how primitive they are. All the patting on the back they give each other for the last two decades should be checked. PLA has its hands tied by the passive, timid CCP. A western leader would have turned the entire Indian military into molten steel and pink mist by now.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Modi's dilemma; 1. fight China and send Indians to the slaughter 2. Surrender completely and publicly 3. Deny as much as he can, lie where he can, distract at all times 4. Shoot himself in the head and reincarnate as a donkey 5. Continue letting BJP IT cell handle domestic propaganda while he keeps his head in the sand 6. Go begging on his knees to Xi for a CCP sanctioned denial program where China keeps Chinese claims and India settles this border dispute amicably and peacefully.

Personally 3 and 5 are currently being utilised. Option 6 for eventual. Option 1 means India loses violently and quickly, BJP leaders get hunted down by proud bhakt morons. Option 6 is difficult to execute because opposition party may expose it even if CCP helps Modi set it up. He can't trust the CCP either. This option means the CCP will have him by the gonads and can squeeze or sell him out at any time they please.

Now you see why India is hesitating and bumping around like a headless chicken with no real leadership. It's lost half its claims for about 5 months now with only more captured by PLA and more killed by PLA. No solution or strategy in sight. Strategy of occupying Chinese land to exchange or bargain with failed miserably. Indian intruders into Reqin left. Both Helmet and Blacktop mountains under PLA control as it should be seeing as it's on China's side of LAC but clearly the Indian strategy of land exchange failed.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
It's clear this is actually potentially how the eventual fighting will get started. By muddying the lines of who fired towards who and whether or what the shots were intended to achieve. The line is getting murkier which suits both sides in all honesty. Both are pointing the fingers at the other.

How is muddying the waters help India?

Both India and China knows full well India looses and looses horrifically badly in a fight.

India is behaving like a spoilt little brat by trying to push as close to the line as possible without triggering a full smack down.

In that sense, Chinese restraint and disciple has been a massive boon to the Indians are they know exactly where the line is, and that they will be fine so long as they don’t cross it.

Indian tactics appears to be to continuously probe for openings and then fully exploiting any found to seize any and all advantageous positions it can, because it knows that Chinese standing orders and PLA discipline means Chinese troops are massively limited in what they can do to evict Indian troops once they have managed to grab a toe hold.

That is the unreported normal on the boarder, and it is a testament to the PLA soldiers on the front that they Indians get as few openings as they do given their difficult terrain and limited resources those PLA soldiers need to deal with.

Things only gets escalated to international news when either the PLA decide enough is enough and publicly warns India, or some Indian hothead does something stupid that gives the PLA frontline troops the required preconditions to respond with deadly force.
 
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