Ladakh Flash Point

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localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
caudaceus said:
On the other hand, looking at the Wikipedia
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There are two good facts
1. Percentage-wise, China outperforms all comparable countries based on per-capita income e.g. Malaysia, Brazil, Thailand. They usually spend around 1-1.5%
2. Except for Belgium and Slovenia, all countries that outperform China R&D as a percentage of GDP are both very highly Industrial countries.

So cheer up, China already plays in the big boys' table.
Click to expand...

Also have to consider purchasing power.

In the US, 70% of R&D costs are labor which translates to significant cost savings in China.


China also saves a lot of money by training people in the US and there's always someone that manages to bring the tech back which also saves a lotta time and money. Time which China doesn't have.
 
I

Inst

Captain
Gatekeeper said:
Like I said, you really don't know China at all!
All you can go by is using one metric for measurement the all encompassing GDP.

Newly industrialised countries (NICs). Give me a break, that term I haven't heard since my economics student days in the late 80s early 90s. China industries is fact more mature than you realised, and more advanced than the best of India got to offer.

As I said, we don't just use one metric for measurement in the well being and development of a country. There are things like infrastructure. How many miles of high speed rail has India have for example? And don't even go there for basic sanitories like toilets. So please don't go comparing best of India with Gansu. There is really no comparison.

Yes in places, China is behind Japan and south Korea, heck there are even behind Taiwan and Malaysia. So I'm not saying China has no more work to do to bring the 'backward' areas up to standards. But China knows that and it's working hard to achieve that. Unlike the country to the south of them! Who just dream of Super power status.

I take it you haven't travel far from where ever you are. My student group last year travel to Shanghai, and the lecturers that accompanied them come back and said to me, "I now totally get it"! "China is awsum, and its only going to be more awsum"!

Please just Google it for yourself, because I'm not going to start educating you as well as my students. Or you can stay in ignorance with your GDP of $10,000 middle income country crap!
Click to expand...

You're being incredibly dumb when I tell you that China was until recently a "developing country" and was fighting to maintain its developing country status at WTO etc to get trade exemptions.

Moreover, saying "you don't get China at all" is an extremely dumb statement; i.e, China is a diverse country on the scale of Europe with massive variation in itself. The situation in Yunnan (where I've been) is different than the situation in Shanghai, which is different than the situation in Xinjiang, etc...

There are definitely commonalities, and there's a "range" for which things outside don't exist, but the range is vast.

===

Put another way, when foreigners come to China, they say, if you're there for 1 day, you can write a book, if you're there for a week, you can give a lecture, if you're there for a month, you can say a sentence, if you're there for a year, a word, and if you're there for longer, you stay silent.
 
I

Inst

Captain
caudaceus said:
On the other hand, looking at the Wikipedia
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There are two good facts
1. Percentage-wise, China outperforms all comparable countries based on per-capita income e.g. Malaysia, Brazil, Thailand. They usually spend around 1-1.5%
2. Except for Belgium and Slovenia, all countries that outperform China R&D as a percentage of GDP are both very highly Industrial countries.

So cheer up, China already plays in the big boys' table.
Click to expand...

China is still behind the leading edge on many technologies. There's places where it's definitely a leader (i.e, commodity solar), but there's also places where it has a gap varying between 5 to 15 years. See, for example, the fitful development of the WS-10 project and the delayed development of the WS-15.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
caudaceus said:
On the other hand, looking at the Wikipedia
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There are two good facts
1. Percentage-wise, China outperforms all comparable countries based on per-capita income e.g. Malaysia, Brazil, Thailand. They usually spend around 1-1.5%
2. Except for Belgium and Slovenia, all countries that outperform China R&D as a percentage of GDP are both very highly Industrial countries.

So cheer up, China already plays in the big boys' table.
Click to expand...
localizer said:
Also have to consider purchasing power.

In the US, 70% of R&D costs are labor which translates to significant cost savings in China.


China also saves a lot of money by training people in the US and there's always someone that manages to bring the tech back which also saves a lotta time and money. Time which China doesn't have.
Click to expand...

Our friend make the classic mistake of using one metric of measurement and comes up with 2 plus 2 equals 5.

R&D is only an indication of potential in innovation, therefore leading to future income growth. But that's not always the case, and this could be due to a number of reasons.

It could be the R&D are in the wrong field, and therefore wasted. Or it could be it lead to dead end, and therefore wasted. It could even be down to accounting policy, which leaves R&D in their books in the hope that it'll eventually bare fruit.

In addition, using % as measure in this case is meaningless. Because R&D spending is not affected by % of GDP, rather It us the absolute spending that counts. It is thrrefore better to use absolute measure. For example Belgium's 3% of GDP only amounts to approx (on top of my head and being generous) US$30 billion on a estimated US $1T economy. Whereas 2% of China's equate to US $300b. Ten times the spending than Belgium.

If it was that easy to increase future wealth, heck everyone would be piling into R&D!

And let's no forget, China enjoyed her fastest period of growth when she was the sweat shop of the world, and not the most advance technically with high R&D.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying R&D is not a good thing, but we need a wide range of other economic activities for an economy as large as China's to ensure future growth.
 
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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Inst said:
You're being incredibly dumb when I tell you that China was until recently a "developing country" and was fighting to maintain its developing country status at WTO etc to get trade exemptions.

Moreover, saying "you don't get China at all" is an extremely dumb statement; i.e, China is a diverse country on the scale of Europe with massive variation in itself.
Click to expand...

Ok. I'll stop here, because I'm obviously dumb and stupid. And not worthy to engage with you, the big wise sage.

There's also another saying where I come from.

One should keep their mouth shut and be thought off as a fool. Rather than open your mouth and have all doubts removed.
 
I

Inst

Captain
Gatekeeper said:
In addition, using % as measure is meaningless. It is better to use absolute measure. For example Belgium's 3% of GDP only amounts to approx (on top of my head and being generous) US$30 billion on a estimated US $1T economy. Whereas 2% of China's equate to US $300b. Ten times the spending than Belgium.

If it was that easy to increase future wealth, heck everyone would be piling into R&D!

And let's no forget, China enjoyed her fastest period of growth when she was the sweat shop of the world, and not the most advance technically with high R&D.
Click to expand...

I hope you realize by this point economy doesn't matter that much anymore, right?

Take, the Saudis, for instance. They're extremely well-off, but they live off their oil wealth and don't actually have a modern society. Above a certain point, well:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Put another way, above 10k GDP per capita the economy becomes progressively harder to grow, as you can see with what happened in Japan (they instigated a bubble and never climbed out of the mess). Soft factors like social organization, research, etc become more important than raw GDP numbers, and in fact, these soft factors are what drive economic growth in the long-run. The US can be seen as a case study; the US has very strong research based on its mass (large country) and policies favorable to corporations and start-ups, and it shows in terms of its growth rate, but at the same time its social policies are such that they'll lead to major social conflict, if not civil war, in the mid-term.
 
B

Bill Blazo

Junior Member
Registered Member
I've been following this standoff like everyone else here, and I'm just as confused now as I was back in May. There's a lot of noise in the Indian press about every little detail, but I suspect most of that noise is unreliable and largely intended for domestic consumption. The Chinese government is, as usual, very tight-lipped about most things. And because it's such a remote area, there's little opportunity for independent verification about the facts on the ground. It's not like reporters can just casually stroll through the area and tell us what's happening, and the locals are mostly goat herders who are not exactly tweeting like Trump. Do we have a sense for what boundary changes have happened since the end of April from satellite data alone?
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Winter is coming I guess the Chinese soldier will have warm bed and plenty of food this winter in ladakh or anywhere along the LAC via Beijing walker

PLA Tibetan garrison's smart clean energy movable container baracks sitting on the very edge of Chinese Indian borders, providing 25℃ indoor temperature all year round.

Ladakh_1.jpg
PLA Tibetan garrison smart container barracks, fully operational on solar energy, fully air-conditioned, able to work normally even below 30 degrees celsius, indoor temperature can be adjusted between 16-30 degrees celsius.

Highly digital and with good ventilation, can have up to 6 soliders live in each one, highly movable with the movement of the troops.

The barracks' design and material make them sturdy, moisture-proof and cold-resistant, even keep the room temperature at 25 degrees Celsius even in the worst of snow storms

Equipped with cutting-edge camouflage nets, the barracks are difficult to detect and suitable for field operations.

The new facilities provide strong logistical support and ensured the troops' combat capability.

New barracks and other improvements can let troops have enough rest and guarantee their quality of life so that they can work together with better morale.

According to the official People's Liberation Army (PLA) website 81.cn, all frontline training troops and border outposts barracks have been equipped with oxygen generators and oxygen cylinders.

How PLA Tibetan garrison's smart clean energy movable container baracks work


1599355818960.png

1599355859067.png
1599355889367.png

Ladakh_2.jpg
 
localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Winter is coming I guess the Chinese soldier will have warm bed and plenty of food this winter in ladakh or anywhere along the LAC via Beijing walker

PLA Tibetan garrison's smart clean energy movable container baracks sitting on the very edge of Chinese Indian borders, providing 25℃ indoor temperature all year round.

View attachment 63175
PLA Tibetan garrison smart container barracks, fully operational on solar energy, fully air-conditioned, able to work normally even below 30 degrees celsius, indoor temperature can be adjusted between 16-30 degrees celsius.

Highly digital and with good ventilation, can have up to 6 soliders live in each one, highly movable with the movement of the troops.

The barracks' design and material make them sturdy, moisture-proof and cold-resistant, even keep the room temperature at 25 degrees Celsius even in the worst of snow storms

Equipped with cutting-edge camouflage nets, the barracks are difficult to detect and suitable for field operations.

The new facilities provide strong logistical support and ensured the troops' combat capability.

New barracks and other improvements can let troops have enough rest and guarantee their quality of life so that they can work together with better morale.

According to the official People's Liberation Army (PLA) website 81.cn, all frontline training troops and border outposts barracks have been equipped with oxygen generators and oxygen cylinders.

How PLA Tibetan garrison's smart clean energy movable container baracks work


View attachment 63176

View attachment 63177
View attachment 63178

View attachment 63179
Click to expand...


Cool, I was wondering if China did container homes since there's so many Chinese containers:


$4000 shipped to the US
 
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