Ladakh Flash Point

Apparently it's become rather big news around Indian circles that Indian military higher ups (I can't be bothered becoming familiar with their rankings) have publicly announced that India will use military force on China if talks are not effective. Indians will be moving goalposts as usual and they have not explained in detail what they mean by talk results being favourable. They have not issued any specifics publicly so announcements of victory from these military leaders are coming soon again. Because no one knows their goals and the victory of not using military force against China will of course be interpreted due to nothing eventuating. Therefore they must have won because there is no fighting and therefore they got what they wanted.

The above is epitome of Indian-ness. Say we are brave and will fight if we don't get what we want. Don't fight, never fight. Then tell everyone we didn't fight because we got what we wanted. Let the moron masses in bhakt communities interpret that as victory even though no goals were specified.

Nobino said:

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All options are on the table folks.
Now they just need to figure out where the table is.

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They're not going to do a single thing. The comparison between Indian military and Chinese military is light and day with the gap greater than the Chinese military and the US military. India has enough material to literally fight for a few days only and there will be no/reduced importing of weapons once a war starts. They cannot make anything worthy themselves and have fewer and inferior weaponry. Their leaders know their heads are gone once they fight and lose so this is all posturing for the eventual announcement that they got what they wanted out of talks and so there will be no need to fight. It's all being set up for that political maneuver if you ask me. Meanwhile China will probably not be gloating about settling this border issue because it actually got what it wanted out of it.

Everyone goes home satisfied... one knowing it won but its population oblivious to the drama and the other knowing it failed but letting its population believe they've won. FFS they've managed to let so many of their people believe they're a "strong and famous" nation LOL!

This guy and post gets it.


The Indian military and government has been caught lying so many freaking countless times now and caught supplying contradictory information every second day. When are they going to stop lying and stop harassing people with their nonsense?

Honestly if they're dumb enough to fight an actual war, it'll prove to their soldiers who will be receiving the wrath, just how reality actually is compared to their delusions of grandeur. Everyone should have sympathy to Indian soldiers if a war happens. Bhakts will be shouting victory and dancing in the streets even if the exchange rate is 100:1 Indians deaths to PLA and PLA invade right into India. Just like they were dancing and celebrating when Pakistan returned their captured and shot down pilot. Shameless losers of the highest order.

Bhakts don't understand there is no military option available to them. It's this strange inability to admit a lowly status because they're sensitive about their lowly status. As ridiculous as Chinese people thinking in the 1980s they can defeat the USA... except Chinese never even entertained that thought. India couldn't come up with a military option against Pakistan they want to believe their imported and homemade junk is sprinkled with fairydust.

ougoah said:

This guy and post gets it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297717616048406528

The Indian military and government has been caught lying so many freaking countless times now and caught supplying contradictory information every second day. When are they going to stop lying and stop harassing people with their nonsense?

Honestly if they're dumb enough to fight an actual war, it'll prove to their soldiers who will be receiving the wrath, just how reality actually is compared to their delusions of grandeur. Everyone should have sympathy to Indian soldiers if a war happens. Bhakts will be shouting victory and dancing in the streets even if the exchange rate is 100:1 Indians deaths to PLA and PLA invade right into India. Just like they were dancing and celebrating when Pakistan returned their captured and shot down pilot. Shameless losers of the highest order.

Bhakts don't understand there is no military option available to them. It's this strange inability to admit a lowly status because they're sensitive about their lowly status. As ridiculous as Chinese people thinking in the 1980s they can defeat the USA... except Chinese never even entertained that thought. India couldn't come up with a military option against Pakistan they want to believe their imported and homemade junk is sprinkled with fairydust.

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Do you think US is involved in crafting Indian rhetoric?

Real picture of India-China war; Insas rifles jamming while 100,000 Chinese artillery shells and rocket submunitions are tearing jawans apart. Token SAM sites with puny 40km range are obliterated within the hour, ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in the dozens striking every airfield. The few MKIs and Mirage fighters that make it into the air with ordinance are quickly targeted beyond 100km range by J-20, J-16, and J-10.

Meanwhile PLA will have uncontestable air superiority with just a fraction of the numbers. PLA will be covering immense swathes of land just by artillery alone. Before the Indians can repair those airfields for use by more distantly stationed fighters, PLA will have already marched upon them after H-6 have leveled all nearby Indian military facilities beyond repair. The PLA wouldn't even need to bring out a single piece of new hardware if they don't want to expose them to US eyes. Does India have EW solutions to poke through the network? No. Not even a primitive imported system. Does India have cruise missiles or ballistic missiles to throw at the PLAAF? Just a handful of ballistic missiles which will be coming up against hundreds of HQ-26, HQ-29, HQ-9, HQ-22, HQ-12, HQ-16, HQ-7, HQ-17, LD-2000, lol good luck to few dozen Indian ballistic missiles - their entire SR and IR inventory. Nirbhay numbers? grand total of 0.

Tens of thousands of PLA troops and tanks, IFVs, APCs, vehicles and guns of all sorts will be tearing through the smaller IA force which has close to zero armour in comparison not to mention hundreds of Z-10 and Z-19 available too (Indians have 4 LCH... yes a total of 4 in service since 2010). Where is the military option? They use nukes, they may hit a few rural targets with their entire inventory and China can neutron bomb all of India into the next world with a fraction of its own. Indian nukes have smaller yields than NK ones btw. Pathetic <100KT yields in this day and age and no thermonuclear weapons. Delivery is just as bad. Token program aimed at Pakistan.

Honestly there is A LOT more to PLA strength than even touched upon above. PLA beating Indians is like a prime decent MMA fighter against a 50kg teenager with delusions of ability. The US in this analogy would be the title holder. India just a fanboy of the title holder and imagining itself to be of greater importance and strength than it actually has. As usual.

localizer said:

Do you think US is involved in crafting Indian rhetoric?

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I don't think the US gives two shits anymore. They just want to see India go against China. Whatever happens to the Indians they cannot care less about. Is there encouragement behind the scenes? Possibly but of irrelevance given the already obvious stance the US has.

Nothing says Rawat and the rest of those clowns are still playing fool the bhakt campaign. They have no real options and no real substance to their talk. It's absolutely ridiculous and to any sane, unbiased, and knowledgeable military observer, China will devastate India brutally if it ever came to war. So talking of military options is a joke to the ones who know and a cope to those who shout Jai Hind. Since they know they'll get annihilated with ease, their game plan is to fool the Indians. The problem that persists is China has clearly settled the border dispute issue against India's claims so they NEED to make it seem like their government hasn't lost Indian claims and hasn't been schooled and embarrassed. And they need to fool the Indian population without actually fighting but still present them the illusion they hold this option.

There's a claiming that the Indians are demanding a unilateral total Chinese withdrawl from the entirety of Pangong lake, can anyone verify this?

They say humans carry indicators of intelligence in their faces. Is it any wonder that both Modi and Rawat look like halfwits? Contrast with Rahul Ghandi's face which carry visual markers for intelligence. Now what does it say about the demagoguery that give people like Modi such immense popularity and voter support? lol come on India you're supposed to be much better than this. Why are sensible and intelligent Indians so quiet, far and few?

The internet is polluted by the verbal diarrhea of bhakt Indians. Interesting psychology and sociology questions on why this is. Bhakt spend the majority of their time bashing China on the internet and straight up making lies about China. Meanwhile they cannot tolerate a single utterance of the truths about India.

China launches another Mars mission, bhakts celebrate how the first Chinese Mars orbiter failed while riding on a Russian rocket that failed the mission. India actually crashes its lander on the moon while both of China's landers succeed but are both called failures due to initial issues that were resolved. India's crashed mission is 99% success. Shit like this but multiplied by 10^6. There are consequences of shittalking they just don't realise.

For India, it annexed politically similar neighbours throughout the 20th century and salami sliced Kashmir and LAC. China in contrast have always respected Korean borders and settled Vietnam borders post war... admittedly parts in China's favour. NK can sort of be considered politically similar and China has never annexed an inch of it despite plenty of ability to before NK developed nukes. Throughout China's ancient history this also applied. Borders were respected but disputes like British demarcated lines with India? Nehru was idiotic to believe the Chinese would be such a pushover if he called Chinese brothers. China would not invade actual Indian territory but India's lousy claim border lines? They could have settled this with China on more amicable terms for decades but again that Hindu elite feeling of superiority over "Communists" ruined it all even after Nehru. Why India?? What is up with your thinking honestly. How do you give so much support to RSS and BJP chauvinism? If you need a political kick in the butt to industrialise and develop, try an authoritarian government built on meritocracy with as little corruption as realistically possible. Learn from Singapore, South Korea, and even China and develop a model/system that suits you. BJP and RSS is the piep piper. The devil's always attractive and will lead you further astray. There's little hope of China and India rebuilding decent relations this decade.

AZaz09dude said:

There's a

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claiming that the Indians are demanding a unilateral total Chinese withdrawl from the entirety of Pangong lake, can anyone verify this?

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Demanding PLA withdrawal but what will they give in return? They also don't have the guts or steel to force a withdraw as indicated by the months long refusal to go kinetic.

If they fight, the war will be stopped very quickly and they'll portray it as victory as their gov gives China certain benefits in secret and then tell the bhakts the Chinese have retreated. CCP will take those benefits and conditions of Indian surrender but keep everything quiet as usual. Reap the rewards and let the Chinese name take another beating based on false premises. The CCP on matters of global PR just continue to let Chinese down. They still have not properly countered COVID propaganda effectively.

The CCP also wants to avoid war at all costs it seems and even entertaining the idea of withdrawing. Forget it! Indian goodwill for China doesn't exist at least not anymore. What are they trying to salvage? lol leaders fed fat over decades of good times and cannot stand for principle anymore. Would be seriously disappointed if CCP withdraws under Indian pressure. Let the Jai Hind crowd come and fight for it. Give the PLA a much needed workout while you're at it and show the Americans what all those decades spent beefing up the PLA has resulted in. If the Indians somehow can counter or defeat the PLA, they deserve the win and their claims. As much as we bash the Indian gov and military, the CCP itself seems to be as cowardly. It sure ain't what it used to be like in the 60s.

If there really is such a marked shift in tone on the Indian side, then it is pretty easy to deduce that American manoeuvring behind the scenes is what allowed Modi to grow a vestige backbone.

But if there is one constant in dealings with modern China, it is that threats and force always backfire.

The PRC has not been cowed by the nuclear might of the USSR or USA, it is delusional of the highest order to think weak and insignificant India’s military threats would even give Beijing pause.

I think this is the opening step of Trump’s next phase on China. They are using the idiotic Indians as guinea pigs to test the waters and waste Chinese munitions.

In that respect, India is doubly screwed, because Chinese strategists would also see the threat, so would aim for maximum damage to warn off the US from making any military misadventures of its own.

If Modi is moronic enough to actually back up his silly little threats, expect the PLA to drop the hammer on India hard.

Any attempt at disrupting Chinese commercial shipping in the Indian Ocean will see the Indian navy quickly obliterated, along with what mediocre naval ship building capacity India has.

China doesn’t even have to deploy too much of its fleet or use its AShBMs. A very simply way to get a hell of a lot of long range strike power is to load a few army cruise missiles trucks on the back of a 071 and just fire from the deck and turn that into an arsenal ship that can keep up with the fleet. They can easily massively expand this with commercial ships, but those would be slow so not ideal.

If India uses itsAndaman and Nicobar islands as staging posts to try to interdict Chinese commercial trade, it would only give China the perfect pretext to seize those islands and get an actual solid foothold in the Indian Ocean.