Can sense your burn.
Ladakh Flash Point
- Thread starter Mt1701d
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Can't help ya. It's now pretty thoroughly buried under tonnes of articles on other Su-30MKI crashes but believe what you want. Even Indians know two IAF personnel were lost and declared a week or so after Indo-Pak fight in 2019. Why don't we remember that IAF officially denied losing any planes and pilots despite Mig-21 shot and its pilot captured while they were making these denials. Clearly they have never admitted to losing any Su-30MKIs and don't intend to. Dead pilots can be called enlisted guys and admin officers. It's a smaller and easier lie than saying no IAF planes shot down and no pilots captured. Yes it's not a certainty but I'm pretty convinced and please feel free to believe otherwise. The facts are at least four Su-30MKIs were went up along with multiple Mig-21s and Mirage 2000s to engage PAF but all failed to stop six out of six PAF strikes and all failed to shoot down a single PAF asset.
I don't recall PAF admitting they didn't cross LoC with JF-17 and Mirage 5. They said this about the F-16s. Not saying you're wrong but would you supply a link on this?
On being outnumbered, BVR is BVR. Let's say there are 12 closer JF-17s against 2 Su-30MKI, what's stopping those MKIs from shooting at the JF-17s which are closer targets than F-16s? If the Mirage 5 and JF-17 escorts were on Pak's side of LOC when they dropped ordinance at the six targets, why didn't MKI successfully shoot down any JF-17 or Mirage 5? It doesn't matter if there were 12 or 120 PAF targets, why couldn't Su-30MKI engage the BVR fight with any success and if not stop the strikes, at least retaliate against the strikers and their escorts? I can understand if it was too close ranged but it was all BVR especially if both were on their sides of the LoC.
Brumby
Major
Tracked but at inconquerable distances for IAF. Why would PLA fly H-6 well within reach of IAF with no air superiority? It's really just an air launch platform for cruise missiles and other stand off weapons. They'll be well behind PLAAF and layers of air defense. H-6 likely to only venture out of Tibet after the IAF and Indian air defenses gone. Actually India doesn't have S-400 yet and the Akash has no ability to reach these altitudes with any energy left for intercepting anything denser than air.
If fighting were to happen, China will be waiting for the Indians to make the move. Which means PLA can expect an initial pounding before they can respond or Chinese sats and recon drones like WZ-8 notice large scale takeoff of IAF units. To be honest, where those PLA artillery are probably stationed, the PLA can hit some of those IAF assets on the tarmac. At worst those airfields won't be usable after waves of PLA artillery shelling and rocket attacks. For the airfields further away, ballistic and cruise missiles. There's really no point for PLA to play fair and give the Indians a fighting chance. It'll be a slaughter of Indians as soon as they make the first move. They understand it and they won't do anything without US jumping into war with China first.
No Chinese airfield is within range of Indian artillery and India doesn't have any land attack cruise missiles (or any cruise missiles for that matter apart from Brahmos or maybe some anti ship cruise missiles they purchased from Russia or to use with Russian rented submarines). India's ballistic missiles are very low in numbers and barely better than Nazi era V2s. Good luck to them landing in Tibetan airfields. India's only serious artillery threat is the Pinaka MLRS. Compare IA's artillery capability and numbers with PLA's. It'll be fun for those interested. So even if PLAAF's limited numbers and modern fighter presence in Tibet, PLA itself can more or less negate the IAF.
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Most if not all of this is spoken in Urdu. So they could be saying anything as far as I can tell. Also even if someone mentioned PAF was on Pakistan's side of LoC, how can we be sure they're not just referring to F-16s? I'm impressed JF-17 and the ancient Mirage 5 has such long stand off ranges if they stuck in Pakistan the whole time.
Yeah, said somebody whose pilot got captured in the conflict. You can said that India is a super powa and like a Thanos. But the fact remain the same. India lost the engagement. With a pilot got captured by Pakistan. Who failed then?
I thought many Chinese military Watchers don't trust David Axe. Something is change here?
There targets were all less than 10 km from LOC.
Brumby
Major
I think you are taking a rather simplistic and superficial view of the situation.
The IAF is spending $242 million on each Rafale. Surely this type of price tag comes with some useful capability or else it would be financial incompetence at a Godzilla level. The issue is not the Rafale’s capabilities but a question of structural fit and its likely impact at a tactical level.
The SU-30MKI had been consistently hyped as the IAF’s superior aircraft of choice for both air superiority and strike. Even with the induction of the Rafale it remains the backbone of the IAF simply because of its relative number. Its weighting upon the IAF will not change at least in the medium term. The Feb 2019 incident demonstrated its failure in DCA and its failed participation in strike which went to a platform that did the same job for the IAF 20 years ago during the Kargil campaign. Does it mean the SU-30 MKI is all form and no substance?
With the induction of the Rafale, the hype presently (indirectly) is that Rafale will solve all the problems that the SU-30 MKI failed to deliver. This is poor reflection on a platform that was so in voque until recently. The reality is that the Rafale cannot solve all of the IAF’s problem. It needs to work with the rest of the force. That gets me to my next point – a question of fit. Frankly I am not optimistic that the Rafale will initially integrate well with the SU-30 MKI and the MIG-29. I think much effort will be required. Until that happens, the IAF will not have an effective force at a tactical level.
While the JF-17 Block 3 may not be as potent as the Rafale at individual level, modern air campaigns are fought at tactical level and there will be more of it that can be deployed eventually than the Rafales. The problem for the IAF is that there is no tangible path presently to upgrade the SU-30 MKI and MIG-29 with AESA. In contrast, the PAF do have a plan. Such an upgrade in capability for the PAF will create significant issues for the ECM capabilities of the SU-30 MKI and MIG-29 which to-date seems to be bogged down by Indian bureaucracy. It is possible to close the capability gap between the JF-17 Block 3 and the Rafale by upgrading its ECM suite with more sensitive receiver and improved digital sampling. This will require investment by the PAF.
I have no knowledge of J-10C capabilities and what J-10D is all about. You would need to make your case with some facts and not merely express an opinion.
As for Spectra here are some features :
1)It has interferometry capability which makes it a highly competent asset for SEAD/DEAD;
2)it has some form of sensor fusion which would give it good situational awareness;
3)It appears to be able to conduct jamming through its AESA radar and that is highly advanced as a feature;
4)it has IR missile warning system unlike the PLAAF which tends to use the cheaper UV based system (exception being the J-20).
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