Ladakh Flash Point

Brumby said:

Welcome to SDF. In an open forum it is refreshing to get a counter point of view or else we are simply just existing in an echo chamber.

Ignore those members who cannot engage in a mature manner as they will try to get you banned through inflammatory comments. Just stay cool and remain professional in your engagements.

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MrCrazyBoyRavi said:

Indians are flooding all chinese related twitter acount, news channel, youtube page, and even creates account in SCMP site to write hostile comments and swarm the construction discussions. I personally don’t like Indians flocking in this forum. They can hardly input new news, info that our other users can’t find and post.

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twineedle said:

The agreement reached was that both sides would move back two km from the LAC and create a de-facto buffer zone, with both sides able to patrol but no permanent structures..........


Overall, the disengagement progress is still ongoing, and it is too early to jump to any conclusions. However it is funny how some members here are so quick to declare victory for China, when it is clear that currently china has retreated the furthest, and India's infrastructure projects connecting DBO road are secure.

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twineedle said:

Satellite images confirm that China has retreated from the LAC, well within its own territory

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280487994097426432

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280492419407122433

The agreement reached was that both sides would move back two km from the LAC and create a de-facto buffer zone, with both sides able to patrol but no permanent structures. This would be a return to status quo ante, and exactly what India wanted since the DBO road would not be threatened. However, the most recent Chinese images show that India hasn't completely withdrawn yet.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281829922168659969

The images show that while China has gone back by over 1 km into its side of the Lac, India still has one forward camp of about 30 soldiers about 500m from the LAC, and one rear camp of at least 50 soldiers about 1 km from lac. China currently has no positions within a km of the LAC in galwan. This shows that India is waiting for more confirmation about Chinese intentions before completely withdrawing as per the agreement. For the sake of comparison, this is another Chinese image of Indian positions in the valley.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278239562116919296

In addition, China has also withdrawn from Hot Springs and Gogra sectors, with India reciprocating.


Meanwhile, some disengagement has taken place at Pangong Tso. China has already retreated from the base of Finger 4, known a Foxhole point. Those soldiers and structures have allegedly been moved to Finger 5. Keep in mind India claims up to Finger 8, while China claims up to Finger 2.

Pangong will definitely take a while to solve. Currently China is still keeping some camps on the Finger 4 ridge, but most of them have been removed. Here is an example of a cleared PLA camp

MEDIA=twitter]1281497744083841024[/MEDIA]

Another interesting image shows that the map of China inscribed on Finger 5 seemingly claiming the land for China has been covered up.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281873301229285376

This likely means PLA is preparing to withdraw further.


Overall, the disengagement progress is still ongoing, and it is too early to jump to any conclusions. However it is funny how some members here are so quick to declare victory for China, when it is clear that currently china has retreated the furthest, and India's infrastructure projects connecting DBO road are secure.

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twineedle said:

It is interesting to see how some members are posting Ajai Shukla articles, when he has been consistently proven wrong countless times throughout the past two months. Interestingly, his narrative not only contradicts undeniable evidence in the form of satellite imagery, but also China's claim that it was India that crossed the lac, not China. Currently, he is contradicting respected defense journalists such as Snehesh Alex Philip, Manu Pubby, Shiv Aroor, and even Western analysts such as Nathan Ruser, Taylor Fravel, and Jeff Smith. Bottom line is that both sides disengaged, although China appears to have withdrawn further according to the latest images. India will return to pre-April positions once it feels confident in Chinese intentions. Like I said, the process is ongoing, so it is premature for anyone to declare victory, but at the moment it seems like both sides are moving towards restoring status quo ante, which is exactly what India wanted.

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Zool said:

I would echo Brumby, but point out some of the logical fallacy in your own post (being I'm not Chinese nor a fanboy, or interested in their posts from either side):

You say the Chinese are disengaging per a mutual agreement with India, but then term it a retreat. How is adhering to an agreement retreat?

And how does the Chinese withdrawing further, sooner, constitute a win for India in some kind of dick measuring contest? Perhaps it's a testament to better infra on the Chinese side. This feels like the hand to hand skirmish all over again; India lost 3 so China lost 5, then India lost 20 (not just the officers) so China lost 30-40 depending on the Indian news outlet. Then China had a large number of Indian prisoners released, so China lost 100+, way more than India, with one Indian soldier now being credited with 13+ kills. And yet a losing China had all those prisoners to give back...

Point is the illogical nonsense will fly on Bharat Rhakshak etc (you'll be banned if you do question the logic lol), but not here.

And the victory is really a victory for peace. I'll admit this will come across as pro-China, but after the skirmish, which with the prisoners and those Indian deaths most assume China won to whatever degree, the Modi Government did not retaliate, which many expected he might due to nationalist pressure. But cooler heads and likely strategic reality prevailed. That's a win for both sides (bar the jingos).

Welcome to SDF and enjoy your stay!

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twineedle said:

It is interesting to see how some members are posting Ajai Shukla articles, when he has been consistently proven wrong countless times throughout the past two months. Interestingly, his narrative not only contradicts undeniable evidence in the form of satellite imagery, but also China's claim that it was India that crossed the lac, not China. Currently, he is contradicting respected defense journalists such as Snehesh Alex Philip, Manu Pubby, Shiv Aroor, and even Western analysts such as Nathan Ruser, Taylor Fravel, and Jeff Smith. Bottom line is that both sides disengaged, although China appears to have withdrawn further according to the latest images. India will return to pre-April positions once it feels confident in Chinese intentions. Like I said, the process is ongoing, so it is premature for anyone to declare victory, but at the moment it seems like both sides are moving towards restoring status quo ante, which is exactly what India wanted.

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localizer said:

I honeslty don't know how to look at these satellite photos. Is there a methodology?

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twineedle said:

It is interesting to see how some members are posting Ajai Shukla articles, when he has been consistently proven wrong countless times throughout the past two months. Interestingly, his narrative not only contradicts undeniable evidence in the form of satellite imagery, but also China's claim that it was India that crossed the lac, not China. Currently, he is contradicting respected defense journalists such as Snehesh Alex Philip, Manu Pubby, Shiv Aroor, and even Western analysts such as Nathan Ruser, Taylor Fravel, and Jeff Smith. Bottom line is that both sides disengaged, although China appears to have withdrawn further according to the latest images. India will return to pre-April positions once it feels confident in Chinese intentions. Like I said, the process is ongoing, so it is premature for anyone to declare victory, but at the moment it seems like both sides are moving towards restoring status quo ante, which is exactly what India wanted.

Click to expand...