The difference is Chinese perception of the LAC is reality, where as the Indian perception is fantasy.
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Ladakh Flash Point
- Thread starter Mt1701d
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There is a difference between claims and perceptions of the lacAnd the perception says that Akchai Chin is Chinese territory.
Wonder what that fat baldy was saying in your parlor...i mean parliament .
If there is difference in perception then how did you declare victory after losing? Like every other time India has done?There is a difference between claims and perceptions of the lac
In any perception you lost Tibet, that remains constant.
Rest of it from your country is hot air with the eventual inevitability "difference of perception".
According to you you didnt lose "a single inch" because your brave jawans were fighting back. How does math work over there?
No it is not. Otherwise China wouldn't be accusing India of occupying land within it's 1959 lac, which is west of the Colombo line( the current lac). There are a few areas where India's perception of the lac is east of the Colombo line, but those are legacy desputes that predate the current standoffThe difference is Chinese perception of the LAC is reality, where as the Indian perception is fantasy.
It is a simple history fact that Aksai China was already taken in 1962. This thread is about the current standoff, in which China failed to reach it's 1959 lac which is west of the current lacIf there is difference in perception then how did you declare victory after losing? Like every other time India has done?
In any perception you lost Tibet, that remains constant.
Rest of it from your country is hot air with the eventual inevitability "difference of perception".
According to you you didnt lose "a single inch" because your brave jawans were fighting back. How does math work over there?
Then why your minister claimed it which was the trigger point of entire saga?It is a simple history fact that Aksai China was already taken in 1962. This thread is about the current standoff, in which China failed to reach it's 1959 lac which is west of the current lac
It is a simple history fact that Aksai China was already taken in 1962. This thread is about the current standoff, in which China failed to reach it's 1959 lac which is west of the current lac
This thread is about the current standoff in which India failed to reach it's 1950s claim of Aksai Chin.
You should admit at least that India is the first one to have made the claim here and unsettled the peace between India and China prior to disputes beginning in the 1950s. India set this whole thing off by being the first one to initiate making a claim on Chinese land back in the 1950s.
India claimed Aksai Chin. In 2019, Amit Shah India's home minister made a big fuss about taking Aksai Chin from China. 2020 escalations, India failed.
India lost legacy dispute of Aksai Chin. India has also failed to capture and control the remaining dispute. Positions within the dispute don't count because then it can be said China has control of the remaining dispute as well since China also has positions within the remaining disputed land as well.
But here instead you choose to focus on China's 1959 claim line. If that's the measure, then India started the 2020 standoff and failed to take a step that China hasn't also taken. E.g. India has positions within remaining dispute (outside of the massive 80% piece that China won) and China also has positions within.
There's a map showing this visually. Showing where permanent positions are and claim lines. China has like over 90% of it. Indians looking for "victory" in the crumbs of absolute defeat.
I thought we agreed that the 2020 standoff was about the remaining 20% and not Aksai China? And as stated before, China does not have an presence on the Indian perception of the lac(Indian side of the disputed 2020). There are a few areas where China still has presence, but those are in a few legacy areas where the dispute predated the current standoff. As discussed before, the majority of the remaining dispute is on the Indian side of the lacThis thread is about the current standoff in which India failed to reach it's 1950s claim of Aksai Chin.
You should admit at least that India is the first one to have made the claim here and unsettled the peace between India and China prior to disputes beginning in the 1950s. India set this whole thing off by being the first one to initiate making a claim on Chinese land back in the 1950s.
India claimed Aksai Chin. In 2019, Amit Shah India's home minister made a big fuss about taking Aksai Chin from China. 2020 escalations, India failed.
India lost legacy dispute of Aksai Chin. India has also failed to capture and control the remaining dispute. Positions within the dispute don't count because then it can be said China has control of the remaining dispute as well since China also has positions within the remaining disputed land as well.
But here instead you choose to focus on China's 1959 claim line. If that's the measure, then India started the 2020 standoff and failed to take a step that China hasn't also taken. E.g. India has positions within remaining dispute (outside of the massive 80% piece that China won) and China also has positions within.
There's a map showing this visually. Showing where permanent positions are and claim lines. China has like over 90% of it. Indians looking for "victory" in the crumbs of absolute defeat.
Does that map follow the Chinese perception of the lac(aka 1959 claim line)? I have seen most available maps and satellite imagery, they use the Google lac, which is based on the Colombo line and has always been more closely aligned with the Indian perception of the lac.
For example, none of China's current positions in Galwan are in the 20% dispute, but all of India's new permanent camps are. This is because India has always recognized the Colombo line in Galwan, so it recognizes China's camps as being on the Chinese side of the lac. China however does not, so it claims India has occupied Chinese territory in Galwan. This was said by the Chinese foreign minister himself.
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I thought we agreed that the 2020 standoff was about the remaining 20% and not Aksai China? And as stated before, China does not have an presence on the Indian perception of the lac(Indian side of the disputed 2020). There are a few areas where China still has presence, but those are in a few legacy areas where the dispute predated the current standoff. As discussed before, the majority of the remaining dispute is on the Indian side of the lac
Does that map follow the Chinese perception of the lac(aka 1959 claim line)? I have seen most available maps and satellite imagery, they use the Google lac, which is based on the Colombo line and has always been more closely aligned with the Indian perception of the lac.
You think the 2020 standoff is China trying to take 1959 claim line. Do you have reasons for thinking and believing this? Can I suggest this is because it's the most soothing story for Indians?
The reality you agree with because they've been said by India itself.
India patrolled a lot more than China... patrolled the 20%.
India announced in 2019 it wants to capture Aksai Chin
China said nothing, did nothing, patrolled much less during the buildup to 2019 and 2020
Standoff occurred when China suddenly pushed PLA up to near 1959 claim line. China later admits that this is in response to what China perceives as increased Indian attempts at salami slicing towards de facto control of 20% and so China had to act decisively
China then controlled the forward positions for 8 months.
India couldn't do a thing despite trying in June 2020 when both sides had a more major violent clash.
And after the humiliating loss from the clash, India spun a massive media story about how they managed to kill a fantasy number of PLA soldiers but have zero proof. China captured dozens up dozens of Indians and showed photos and videos. India captured no PLA during that fight.
India then used a video from March 2020 showing a group of Indians beating up a PLA soldier who exited his vehicle for talks. The Indians doctored that video by removing the wide angles and only showing close ups so that they seem like they have a video from June fight when they have nothing.
After this failure of India to salami slice its way to controlling the 20%, India claims the whole thing was started by China and India held strong against China. This is absurdly ridiculous when you consider China actually took forward positions for 8 months and weathered Indian assaults during those 8 months. If they wanted to capture and control this forward position, well they can and managed to. Clearly China wasn't after controlling it otherwise why would they achieve that and then disengage?
India makes itself sound good in utter defeat by saying we never tried to do anything and since China didn't take anything from prior to standoff, that means we won because we "thwarted" the Chinese.
This is India and the total truth of what happened here. You admit India keeps talking about how it "thwarted" China right?
How well did India thwart China between March 2020 and October 2020 then? Very weird the Chinese left forward positions as soon as India agreed to buffer deals on at least two separate areas.
You yourself have agreed that China wasn't able to secure a total buffer, which by extention means India secured large parts of the disputed 20%(because it is mostly on India's side of the lac) due to having established new permanent camps and infrastructure With the exception of a few km of buffer zones, India's activity remains unchanged from 2019.You think the 2020 standoff is China trying to take 1959 claim line. Do you have reasons for thinking and believing this? Can I suggest this is because it's the most soothing story for Indians?
The reality you agree with because they've been said by India itself.
India patrolled a lot more than China... patrolled the 20%.
India announced in 2019 it wants to capture Aksai Chin
China said nothing, did nothing, patrolled much less during the buildup to 2019 and 2020
Standoff occurred when China suddenly pushed PLA up to near 1959 claim line. China later admits that this is in response to what China perceives as increased Indian attempts at salami slicing towards de facto control of 20% and so China had to act decisively
China then controlled the forward positions for 8 months.
India couldn't do a thing despite trying in June 2020 when both sides had a more major violent clash.
And after the humiliating loss from the clash, India spun a massive media story about how they managed to kill a fantasy number of PLA soldiers but have zero proof. China captured dozens up dozens of Indians and showed photos and videos. India captured no PLA during that fight.
India then used a video from March 2020 showing a group of Indians beating up a PLA soldier who exited his vehicle for talks. The Indians doctored that video by removing the wide angles and only showing close ups so that they seem like they have a video from June fight when they have nothing.
After this failure of India to salami slice its way to controlling the 20%, India claims the whole thing was started by China and India held strong against China. This is absurdly ridiculous when you consider China actually took forward positions for 8 months and weathered Indian assaults during those 8 months. If they wanted to capture and control this forward position, well they can and managed to. Clearly China wasn't after controlling it otherwise why would they achieve that and then disengage?
India makes itself sound good in utter defeat by saying we never tried to do anything and since China didn't take anything from prior to standoff, that means we won because we "thwarted" the Chinese.
This is India and the total truth of what happened here. You admit India keeps talking about how it "thwarted" China right?
How well did India thwart China between March 2020 and October 2020 then? Very weird the Chinese left forward positions as soon as India agreed to buffer deals on at least two separate areas.
And it was China that patrolled Pangong far more than India prior to 2020 due to it's superior infra and geographic advantage. That was until India forced China to capitulate and accept a buffer zone between fingers 4-8. Colonel Dinny clarified this in his interview.
Now China can't patrol the disputed area in Pangong even though it was patrolling it far more than India prior to 2020 while India almost never patrolled past finger 4 according to Colonel Dinny, who led patrols on Pangong Tso.
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