Ladakh Flash Point

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Sardaukar20

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What do we think about this?

I think this man does know about China a bit more than the average Indian, but still far from having enough of an understanding to make any useful point.

He's theory that China doesn't actually want all out war and therefore India could risk being a bit more aggressive seems dangerous, although I don't think the actual people in power are quite dumb enough to go down that line of thought.

Although I'm curious about his idea compared to historical reference point: did India think in 1962 that China didn't want all out war either prior to the war?
This guy, despite understanding Geopolitics better than the average India, still doesn't understand China. He got some points right with China's BRI vs IMF. But on how China and the CPC works, he is still viewing China through a Cold War, and Jai Hind lens.

Here are some ludicrous quotes from him:
The Chinese are engaged in these provocations precisely because they judge the Indian side as being unwilling to fight or too weak to fight. If we do fight, the Chinese will want to keep the conflict limited but they will have gotten the message that they should not take India for granted.
Nonsense. The Indian side started the fight. By abrogating Article 370, and then sending troops towards Aksai Chin when China was busy dealing with the first wave of the Covid-19 outbreak. That is a naked Indian backstab.

Before the battle for Galwan Valley, China overestimated the honesty and fighting prowess of the Indian Army. All that changed when hundreds of Indian Jawans ambushed a small Chinese negotiation team. Subsequently these same Indian Jawans were routed when the PLA sent in reinforcements.

The mass casualties of Indian Jawan from routing, and their mass surrender was truly humiliating. It even surprised the Chinese. The Chinese leadership even had to keep the ugly details secret for around 8 months in order to not humiliate the Indians. It was that pathetic. Clearly, India had not appreciated that Chinese goodwill. So China now understands that it is in a position of strength against a frankly childish opponent. India has little military leverage against China. Even Pakistan doesn't respect Indian military power since the 2019 air skirmish. Galwan Valley is a stern warning. If India wants to try its luck again with the PLA, there will be no sympathies next time.

In 1989, after the Tiananmen Massacre, the Party was under pressure. The Tiananmen demonstrations were organised by students—who, as part of a long tradition in China—saw themselves as the vanguard of the revolution in China.
Nope it was a CIA-sponsored violent color revolution that tried to not only topple the Chinese government, but also destroy the Chinese nation as a whole. Some of these 'student protesters' brutally murdered PLA soldiers, and tried to stir up more violence. These are not revolution vanguards, these are CIA-sponsored terrorists. The most effective way to deal them is to neutralize them ASAP. For 1989 China, it had to be with lethal force.

India has no problems gunning down Muslims in Kashmir, or gunning down minorities in Nagaland. The Indian Army has even carried out a massacre at a hospital in Sri Lanka. Do not lie to us that India is morally superior to China.

What will happen now is that the Chinese will say, ‘we have this law to protect our land, but the Indians are violating it.’ Chinese are now trying to make it look like they are a regular, law-abiding nation. But that law—all laws in China—can be set aside whenever it suits the CPC’s interests.
Inconvenient truth: India abrogated Article 370 unilaterally. India was the one who is really playing lawfare.

The Communist Party has always seen war through a political lens. They are willing to engage in war when it makes political sense and their early leadership had much experience of war, having fought for decades as insurgents and in the civil war with the then ruling Kuomintang party.

Soon after the People’s Republic of China was born, they engaged in the Korean War. There were brief conflicts with the Indians and Russians, of course. Then in 1979, the war with the Vietnamese which people think ended in some sort of stalemate. But the fact is that the war at the border continued right up to the late 1980s. So, the People’s Liberation Army has engaged in conflict willingly and for considerable periods.
Partially true. But wholly misunderstanding China's war motivations. All of them with the slight exception to the Sino-Vietnam war had been mainly about securing the territorial integrity of China.

1) Korean War: Securing China's North East borders from the rampaging US-led UN forces. The North East had been a historical corridor for invasion into Beijing from the Mongol Empire, and Imperial Japan. So China rightly responded to a grave invasion threat.

2) 1962 war with India: Again, securing China from Indian military expansionism. India refused to negotiate border demarcation with China. Then India started the "forward policy", sending troops into Chinese territories. With Nehru giving instructions to shoot PLA troops who tried to reclaim those lands. This is textbook military invasion. China was right to respond with military force and kick the invaders out.

China doesn't want war with India, but will not stand idly to any Indian invasion of its territories. Its the Indian side who thought that the Chinese were weak pathetic communists who would easily back down to Indian aggression. It looks like India is failing to learn that lesson these days. This idiot is talking like Nehru and his generals in 1962.

3) Border skirmishes with the Soviet Union. Again, more about territorial dispute than actual ideological war. Nevertheless, the skirmishes didn't become a global war. Because both sides realized that war with each other is just madness.

4) China - Taiwan conflicts from 1949 to present: China is working on reigning in a rebellious part of its territory. With as much restraint as possible. This is none of India's business. What would India do, if Assam suddenly decided to break away?

5) Sino-Vietnam war and conflicts from 1979 - 1991. This one no doubt had a decent amount geopolitical games involved. Most of the fighting was still over securing China's interest over the Indochina region. Not for some Maoist-Communist idealism. But isn't India doing the same thing in South Asia and against China? The Indo-Pakistani wars, the Indian intervention in Sri Lanka, India supporting Tibetan separatism, India supporting terrorists to disrupt the BRI, and many more?

Hu Xijin was loud and brash but ultimately, he was a liar, a propagandist for an authoritarian regime. Even ordinary Chinese folk know this.
Well Hu Xijin was right about more things than all of the Indian media combined. Compare him to what the Indian media has: Shiv Aroor, Palki Sharma Upadhyay, and Arnab Goswami. Yuck! I spit at the mention of those names. And yet so many Indians still believe them? Hell!

Fun fact. Hu Xijin had been truthful about the Chinese casualties from the Battle of Galwan Valley, while your media, and even the Defence Minister himself were lying through their teeth.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
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What do we think about this?

I think this man does know about China a bit more than the average Indian, but still far from having enough of an understanding to make any useful point.

He's theory that China doesn't actually want all out war and therefore India could risk being a bit more aggressive seems dangerous, although I don't think the actual people in power are quite dumb enough to go down that line of thought.

Although I'm curious about his idea compared to historical reference point: did India think in 1962 that China didn't want all out war either prior to the war?

Yes.

They've been killing Chinese soldiers since 1960 and kept on escalating. In true Chinese fashion Chairman Mao kept things under wraps and spent a year to properly supply Tibet with troops and gears/ammunition. When the Cuban Missile Crisis occurred he found an opening spot and released a can of whoop-a** that resulted in over 6 decades of continuous butthurt.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes.

They've been killing Chinese soldiers since 1960 and kept on escalating. In true Chinese fashion Chairman Mao kept things under wraps and spent a year to properly supply Tibet with troops and gears/ammunition. When the Cuban Missile Crisis occurred he found an opening spot and released a can of whoop-a** that resulted in over 6 decades of continuous butthurt.
Supposedly Mao locked himself in his room for 3 days pacing the floor trying to understand the logic behind India's strategy and if he missed anything, and in the end he couldn't come up with an answer and kind of just shrugged.

I know that it took a year to build up the supplies required for the 1962 war, with lots of logistic help from Tibetan ex-serfs who knew their previous masters escaped into India and so wanted to give them what for.

Question is did India knew about the build up back then and if so, how did they interpret it.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Supposedly Mao locked himself in his room for 3 days pacing the floor trying to understand the logic behind India's strategy and if he missed anything, and in the end he couldn't come up with an answer and kind of just shrugged.

I know that it took a year to build up the supplies required for the 1962 war, with lots of logistic help from Tibetan ex-serfs who knew their previous masters escaped into India and so wanted to give them what for.

Question is did India knew about the build up back then and if so, how did they interpret it.

I’ve heard a version where he thought about it for nine days and nights…
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
This guy, despite understanding Geopolitics better than the average India, still doesn't understand China. He got some points right with China's BRI vs IMF. But on how China and the CPC works, he is still viewing China through a Cold War, and Jai Hind lens.

Here are some ludicrous quotes from him:

Nonsense. The Indian side started the fight. By abrogating Article 370, and then sending troops towards Aksai Chin when China was busy dealing with the first wave of the Covid-19 outbreak. That is a naked Indian backstab.

Before the battle for Galwan Valley, China overestimated the honesty and fighting prowess of the Indian Army. All that changed when hundreds of Indian Jawans ambushed a small Chinese negotiation team. Subsequently these same Indian Jawans were routed when the PLA sent in reinforcements.

The mass casualties of Indian Jawan from routing, and their mass surrender was truly humiliating. It even surprised the Chinese. The Chinese leadership even had to keep the ugly details secret for around 8 months in order to not humiliate the Indians. It was that pathetic. Clearly, India had not appreciated that Chinese goodwill. So China now understands that it is in a position of strength against a frankly childish opponent. India has little military leverage against China. Even Pakistan doesn't respect Indian military power since the 2019 air skirmish. Galwan Valley is a stern warning. If India wants to try its luck again with the PLA, there will be no sympathies next time.


Nope it was a CIA-sponsored violent color revolution that tried to not only topple the Chinese government, but also destroy the Chinese nation as a whole. Some of these 'student protesters' brutally murdered PLA soldiers, and tried to stir up more violence. These are not revolution vanguards, these are CIA-sponsored terrorists. The most effective way to deal them is to neutralize them ASAP. For 1989 China, it had to be with lethal force.

India has no problems gunning down Muslims in Kashmir, or gunning down minorities in Nagaland. The Indian Army has even carried out a massacre at a hospital in Sri Lanka. Do not lie to us that India is morally superior to China.


Inconvenient truth: India abrogated Article 370 unilaterally. India was the one who is really playing lawfare.


Partially true. But wholly misunderstanding China's war motivations. All of them with the slight exception to the Sino-Vietnam war had been mainly about securing the territorial integrity of China.

1) Korean War: Securing China's North East borders from the rampaging US-led UN forces. The North East had been a historical corridor for invasion into Beijing from the Mongol Empire, and Imperial Japan. So China rightly responded to a grave invasion threat.

2) 1962 war with India: Again, securing China from Indian military expansionism. India refused to negotiate border demarcation with China. Then India started the "forward policy", sending troops into Chinese territories. With Nehru giving instructions to shoot PLA troops who tried to reclaim those lands. This is textbook military invasion. China was right to respond with military force and kick the invaders out.

China doesn't want war with India, but will not stand idly to any Indian invasion of its territories. Its the Indian side who thought that the Chinese were weak pathetic communists who would easily back down to Indian aggression. It looks like India is failing to learn that lesson these days. This idiot is talking like Nehru and his generals in 1962.

3) Border skirmishes with the Soviet Union. Again, more about territorial dispute than actual ideological war. Nevertheless, the skirmishes didn't become a global war. Because both sides realized that war with each other is just madness.

4) China - Taiwan conflicts from 1949 to present: China is working on reigning in a rebellious part of its territory. With as much restraint as possible. This is none of India's business. What would India do, if Assam suddenly decided to break away?

5) Sino-Vietnam war and conflicts from 1979 - 1991. This one no doubt had a decent amount geopolitical games involved. Most of the fighting was still over securing China's interest over the Indochina region. Not for some Maoist-Communist idealism. But isn't India doing the same thing in South Asia and against China? The Indo-Pakistani wars, the Indian intervention in Sri Lanka, India supporting Tibetan separatism, India supporting terrorists to disrupt the BRI, and many more?

Well Hu Xijin was right about more things than all of the Indian media combined. Compare him to what the Indian media has: Shiv Aroor, Palki Sharma Upadhyay, and Arnab Goswami. Yuck! I spit at the mention of those names. And yet so many Indians still believe them? Hell!

Fun fact. Hu Xijin had been truthful about the Chinese casualties from the Battle of Galwan Valley, while your media, and even the Defence Minister himself were lying through their teeth.
Spot on.

China doesn't want a war with India. Even among the military the focus is east towards Taiwan, Japan. Perceiving India as "weak" has nothing to do with it. Despite numerous provocations China has always made efforts to deescalate the situation and has been prepared to go back to the negotiating table.

Indians know time is running out with their power compared to China. Every year the economic size between them widens exponentially. Galwan was an Indian gamble that failed spectacularly. Now it seems they have gone back to undermining China through non-military means.
 

Ringsword

Junior Member
Registered Member
Spot on.

China doesn't want a war with India. Even among the military the focus is east towards Taiwan, Japan. Perceiving India as "weak" has nothing to do with it. Despite numerous provocations China has always made efforts to deescalate the situation and has been prepared to go back to the negotiating table.

Indians know time is running out with their power compared to China. Every year the economic size between them widens exponentially. Galwan was an Indian gamble that failed spectacularly. Now it seems they have gone back to undermining China through non-military means.
I think India is done as any counterweight to China as Galwan clash was a spectacular military failure with long term political repercussions for India.Have you noted that AUKUS began shortly after this clash as US realizes what a liability corrupt,inept and cowardly India is and India's hope of endless US money ,military aid and open immigration has ended.Also US has noted Modi's incompetence in dealing with Covid19 crisis and now the US has moved on and India has shown her true evil heart toward China-there is no basis for any rapprochement let alone any meaningful political settlement of border issues.Also India has now initiated a cold war with China and that issue will be settled after Taiwan.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
He's theory that China doesn't actually want all out war and therefore India could risk being a bit more aggressive seems dangerous, although I don't think the actual people in power are quite dumb enough to go down that line of thought.

By that logic, India should get more aggressive with the US to secure a trade deal since the Americans don’t want an all out war either.
 
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