Ladakh Flash Point

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davidau

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I guarantee India will refuse to allow the entire disputed area to become a disengaged buffer. Pangong lake to them was just too high profile and the attention of Modi and IA failure required immediate simmering so that agreement to not step beyond F3 so that PLA could disengage was quickly done and then quickly marketed to the halfwits as PLA retreeeeeted! The IA and Indian gov will not allow such a course of action from Depsang to Gogra & Hot Springs. Kailash they never truly held not even helmet and black top. Even at India's most forward positions that were sustained, they kept on their side of the most westerly interpretation of LAC - Indian side of black and helmet top peaks.

Depsang to Gogra is also relatively high profile and no way the opposition would allow Modi to even hint at agreeing to similar terms as Pangong PLA disengagement. It also gives them access to the entirety of their claims which China's been controlling since 1962. What both sides can and probably will do is settle the southern one into a buffer (at best for China) just like with Pangong, and leave the standoff on the north of lake ongoing but relatively stable with firm ROE.

I bet much of the negotiations was to establish very FIRM rules of engagement to avoid accidental escalations from command perspective and it also creates a mutual understanding of what each is able to do. China almost definitely forced this so that if there is any more violence that erupts, there would be far more accountability ... on both sides as well. The Indians will be able to hold PLA accountable if PLA does something outside of ROE. Give enough time, one or both sides will start to game these new rules.

India I suspect may want to plan some escalations. At least they're staying within the north of lake areas. China will continue maintaining those positions within as well at least until Indians disengage. An Indian revisit of their old plan to take Kailash in an effort to improve negotiation position means PLA needs to assume they are planning it. It could well be India's one step back before two steps forwards if PLA lets its guard down in the south and even Pangong depending how the talks and agreements detailed the disengagement.
China would never let anyone to occupy an inch of her territory!
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Truth and reality don't matter to the Jai Hind mindset. Truth is bent, reality is denied. The problem with going about life this way is that it never allows one to properly understand the problems in the first place and denies them the solutions to overcome them. It's not simply a denial that PRC's seat at UN was not only done before India was a nation, it was done not at the behest of China. It's foolish to think China was the one desperate to join. In the early days, a permanent seat is often more a drawback than a benefit, it pushes a nation towards "cooperating" with forces that don't necessarily have its interests at mind. China could well leave the UNSC and given its seat to India then but no one considered India important or threatening enough to invite to the security council. If they want it now, they will use veto power to bother all its adversaries. China would just need to politically decouple from these horrid systems that are really there just for the top to exercise rule of their law over the more powerless. For China being asked to join, it was a means to have a formal communication with the country and exercise the combined pressure on it.

The misunderstanding of what a seat represents is actually quite humourous. I think Jai Hinds only consider it as some sort of privileged class which proves a nation "arriving". Nope. You can be the superpower and do what you want without being on the seat. It's a farce and a formality with minimal real work and maximum political gaming. It's not some country club membership that seems to be misinterpreted by those with warped and frankly worrying sense of classism.

A nation can work and cooperate with international forums etc without being even a member. There are various channels of genuinely productive cooperation and dialogue outside the UN which was a total farce and continues to be. UNSC veto power is abused by all sides of the political spectrum to serve their interests and the interests of their allies and vassals. No good work is done there, just cheap words by hollow people.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
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Any bets on whether they’ll do something stupid this summer to distract from the COVID issue?

They may try something on Pakistan but once bitten twice shy with regards to China. However, if they perform human wave style attacks that totally overwhelm available PLA in this region (assuming air parity for the region), China would have no answer. This is the main advantage IA hold over PLA. Not enough rockets and shells for a half a million troops unless Pakistan uses the opportunity to open a front but that is simply unlikely. What is China's plan for such an occasion? It can't use nukes, redirecting and mobilising troops from the east would take a very long time,
 

Xizor

Captain
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April 23, 2021

Indian and Chinese troops continue to confront each other at the Hot Springs and Gogra Post, along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh.
The PLA is currently around 700 metres inside India’s perception of the LAC in both locations
.

“The Chinese ought not to feel threatened in that area because we cannot bring in more troops or escalate the situation there,” says Lt General Rakesh Sharma, former GOC of the Leh-based 14 Corps. “The only way we can access those locations is through the Marsimik La, which is closed for the next six months or so.”

Another major standoff can take place at just a few hours’ notice.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Any bets on whether they’ll do something stupid this summer to distract from the COVID issue?
No bets. They likely won't. India's defence industry has its hands full with supplying equipments to its failing health sector (oxygen and ventilators).
India still hasn't even drawn a plan for Light Tank (the Chinese Type15 seems to have made an impression), lack of Rocket forces (in numbers and range)...

So can't afford an escalation it seems.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
However, if they perform human wave style attacks that totally overwhelm available PLA in this region (assuming air parity for the region), China would have no answer. This is the main advantage IA hold over PLA. Not enough rockets and shells for a half a million troops unless Pakistan uses the opportunity to open a front but that is simply unlikely. What is China's plan for such an occasion? It can't use nukes, redirecting and mobilising troops from the east would take a very long time,

... nope.
  • "Assuming air parity"...?
  • Even if you assume the above, parity isn't enough to execute "human wave style attacks" because cluster munitions are prevalent in ground forces today. You don't need a million shells/rockets/missiles to take out a million men, just a few can take out an entire division. And the constricted geography of this region means these "human (mechanized) waves" will be trapped in natural funnels, which will turn into kill boxes. This is why "air parity" won't cut it. They would need air supremacy in order to pull off such a tactic.
  • In case of an all out war between China-India, you can bet Pakistan would open a second front. Indian high command knows this.
  • Indian mobilization would be evident months before they build up the capacity to launch such a fantasy-blitzkrieg. The PLA can counter with its own mobilization much quicker due to its advantages in both logistics and terrain.
TLDR, there is no real chance of a successful Indian mass offensive, which is why the dreams of Indians on this forum were shattered, and they pivoted to nitpicking about satellite images lolz. Last year, in April, they were talking about launching "blitzkriegs", remember? One of them was like "India is not gonna tolerate this!! We're gonna launch a massive counter-offensive!!!" And I was like:

cool story, bro - Dictionary.com
 
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