Ladakh Flash Point

An excerpt from Shukla's write up (June, 2020).

Anticipating the need to back up their intruding troops in the Gogra Post area, a large number of PLA troops have concentrated on the Chinese side of the LAC across from India’s PP-18, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23, which is east of Gogra Post. Chinese artillery guns have been observed deployed across the LAC from PP-19.


@twineedle When you insist Ajai Shukla is wrong, the natural question that arise is - so where does all these Patrol points go? Can you show these PP in the alternate map you insist to be right?

twineedle said:

I already said the patrol points are west of the red line in the map previously posted. You still have not presented evidence the red line is not the lac. And you were the one who started the debate on the exact location of patrol points. I simply used Shukla's map for the sake of discussion. I was discussing satellite imagery.

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You just keep going back at the same thing.
Its helpless. Shukla's map is more detailed that that rough sketch map you provide.

Xsizor said:

Nah. The Indian government would say that LAC has been at New Delhi.

Following that Google will redo the LAC at New Delhi.

The Bhakts would be happy because no land were lost (as LAC wasn't violated).

All would be fine and China would be left wondering how skillful India is at persuading itself of alternative reality.

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The Indian government would say there never was an India. It was all a mirage. India had always been a loyal part of China and will defend Chinese interests as loyal sepoys.

I am going to try and keep it as simple as possible

Red line- LAC
patrol points - between red line and gogra post
There is even a road from gogra post to the patrol points.
So far, no clear evidence has been presented countering these facts.
This image by Abhijit iyer has been corroborated by multiple anlaysts, including Nathan Ruser and Detresfa. Meanwhile, there is literally no other source/analysis corroborating Shukla.

So far, there is no evidence Indian patrol routes have been altered or that a buffer zone has been created.

twineedle said:

I am going to try and keep it as simple as possible

Red line- LAC
patrol points - between red line and gogra post
There is even a road from gogra post to the patrol points.
So far, no clear evidence has been presented countering these facts.
This image by Abhijit iyer has been corroborated by multiple anlaysts, including Nathan Ruser and Detresfa. Meanwhile, there is literally no other source/analysis corroborating Shukla.

Click to expand...

You are doubling down without answering the questions posted.

All those patrol points have vanished into thin air.

Regarding this Abhijit Iyer Mitra you quote.


Self appointed bishop of "Indian Right". Very not crony.

twineedle said:

So far, no clear evidence has been presented countering these facts.
This image by Abhijit iyer has been corroborated by multiple anlaysts, including Nathan Ruser and Detresfa. Meanwhile, there is literally no other source/analysis corroborating Shukla.

Click to expand...

Bold 1: Not facts
Bold 2: Modi party supporting think tank shill.

Bold 3: Merely are measuring distance to the ever changing LAC of India.


Still didn't answer the questions regarding the patrol points and detailed write up of Ajai Shukla.

Xsizor said:

An excerpt from Shukla's write up (June, 2020).

Anticipating the need to back up their intruding troops in the Gogra Post area, a large number of PLA troops have concentrated on the Chinese side of the LAC across from India’s PP-18, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23, which is east of Gogra Post. Chinese artillery guns have been observed deployed across the LAC from PP-19.


@twineedle When you insist Ajai Shukla is wrong, the natural question that arise is - so where does all these Patrol points go? Can you show these PP in the alternate map you insist to be right?

You just keep going back at the same thing.
Its helpless. Shukla's map is more detailed that that rough sketch map you provide.

Click to expand...

@twineedle. Deflections won't pass.

Xsizor said:

You are doubling down without answering the questions posted.

All those patrol points have vanished into thin air.

Regarding this Abhijit Iyer Mitra you quote.
View attachment 70361

Self appointed bishop of "Indian Right". Very not crony.

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Ah yes, classic obfuscation. When you cannot disprove something, discredit its author. All of the latest satellite imagery has corroborated Abhijit Iyer Mitra's analysis.

As for the patrol points, I already said they are between gogra and the red line. If Shukla is so correct, why isn't any other source corroborating him on the location of lac, pps, etc.?

Here are some simple questions you have consistently failed to answer:

What evidence do you have the lac on google(the red line) is incorrect?
What evidence do you have that detresfa and Nathan Ruser(latter of whom isn't even pro BJP) are biased?
What evidence do you have that there is a buffer zone? WIthout said evidence, there is no proof that India's patrol routes have been altered.

twineedle said:

Ah yes, classic obfuscation. When you cannot disprove something, discredit its author. All of the latest satellite imagery has corroborated Abhijit Iyer Mitra's analysis.

As for the patrol points, I already said they are between gogra and the red line. If Shukla is so correct, why isn't any other source corroborating him on the location of lac, pps, etc.?

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No. He is merely toeing the Indian government line.

You choose him over the detailed map assessment of a retired soldier.

Still haven't answered for the Patrol Points and detailed write up that Ajai Shukla uses.

Point out where the patrol points are in the map. It should be easy.

Xsizor said:

Bold 1: Not facts
Bold 2: Modi party supporting think tank shill.

Bold 3: Merely are measuring distance to the ever changing LAC of India.


Still didn't answer the questions regarding the patrol points and detailed write up of Ajai Shukla.

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Whether or not Abhijit Iyer supports Modi is irrelevant. What matters is all the satellite imagery corroborates his analysis, even almost a year later.

Compare his image/analysis to this recent image
PAtrol points up to 19 are between the red line and gogra post. As I said before, pp 19 is directly behind kongka la.

twineedle said:

Here are some simple questions you have consistently failed to answer:

What evidence do you have the lac on google(the red line) is incorrect?
What evidence do you have that detresfa and Nathan Ruser(latter of whom isn't even pro BJP) are biased?
What evidence do you have that there is a buffer zone? WIthout said evidence, there is no proof that India's patrol routes have been altered.

Click to expand...

Bold 1: The lack of detailed information with Patrol Points etc.

Bold 2: Not biased. Simply following the changing LAC as determined by India. They aren't wrong, technically but here LAC can be shifted by India as per wish.

Bold 3: If LAC is as per Ajai Shukla (Assuming you accept), then Buffer zone could be in the 15km gap between the region. Ajai Shukla himself writes that after the initial confrontation, both armies moved back a set distance to de escalate.