Ladakh Flash Point

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ougoah

Brigadier
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Can you two just agree to disagree because all you guys have are some tweets from some clearly biased and unreliable folks (and yes Shukla definitely is unreliable at times I've never claimed otherwise). Shukla does sometimes raise good points totally ignored by Jai Hind India and often Jai Hind india is wrong just like the whole "nothing is going on and no issue whatsoever" claims.

You guys have no idea of troop movement and current positions. We need to wait for official statements to understand current or past situations at Demchok, Gogra HS, and any other points of confrontation.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I guess you and I have different interpretations of Shukla's drawing. Then again, his drawing was vague and probably meant to be unspecific. From what I can tell, PP19 would be around here, just after the Indian road from Gogra.
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I guessed so.
But that isn't Shukla's version of PP19.
That is twineedle's version of PP19.

@ougoah, pitch in. Where do you think PP19 is on a satellite map from the map posted below-
1616567248888.png
This is my marking Screenshot_20210324-071012__01.jpg
:)
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
You guys are talking about shit that is on the western side of the western border lol That's Indian land. Somehow Chiina lost land ??????




I know where you're motivation come from and personally commend you so much for setting the truth straight. Otherwise these Jai Hinds will shift the goal posts to anything north west of New Delhi was Chinese controlled and since India controls it nnow, India won. LOL

these sad morons have to put 100% of their efforts towards soothing their overly inflated sense of might that derives from talking each other up with brochures and talking others down when others have real progress and capability.

Failing to satisfy egos in reality, they need to spin utter offensively untrue Jai Hind BS like China lost land and China retreated when in reality, all this fighting was actually on the edge of disputed lands and many, MANY kilometers beyond what China won after 1962.

If that general sentiment from India and that aggressiveness wasn't the case, there is nothing much stopping the two nations from building decent relations where this sort of disputed land grabbing wouldn't be as necessary. Ironic.

But Jai hinds like tying Kashmiri uncles onto their Indian trucks and driving them around, raping women, and executing grandfathers in front of their grandchildren. They have an inflated sense of mightiness and like bullying the helpless while building up their sense of might using those. Screw BJP India and screw Hindu nationalists. While I understand India's frustrations at having China build up within disputed parts, I'm glad the Hindu nazis are on the receiving end of some aggression. The sooner Indian can get rid of Hindutva attitudes, the sooner the region can work towards an era where fighting over disputed land is no longer as necessary as it currently may be.
So China didn't reach up to finger 4-8 in 1962? If that's the case why wasn't India able to occupy those fingers after 62 like it did Hot Springs and gogra, which were temporarily vacated as a result of the ceasefire?
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ao noq Chinese claim lines don't mean anything? Indian claims are already quite clear..

Out of the ENTIRE historic dispute since 1950s, China already controls about 80% of it. Wants to establish stability on the rest and formally has offered India settlement where Chinese "claims" are even further into India's side. This proves that China is happy with what it already has but just wants to ensure India doesn't flare up issues and cause confrontations of troops patrolling and doesn't want India reinforcing because India has numeric and geographic advantage.

Also the recent confrontation sites are even more beyond what China has controlled before confrontation. Everything where there was confrontation has been taking place on India's side of right on the edge of what China claims or right on the edge of what China controlled. One of the three. At no point has India been confronting China within what China controlled EXCEPT for one IA intrusion into China's side at Reqin and then they were very quickly confronted and pushed out.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
So China didn't reach up to finger 4-8 in 1962? If that's the case why wasn't India able to occupy those fingers after 62 like it did Hot Springs and gogra, which were temporarily vacated as a result of the ceasefire?

China reached well beyond blue line in general map at the end of 1962 war. China took two steps in and one step back. The one step back was to ensure the war ended at the point of time and space where China chooses. The war stopped China says we're taking xyz for good and you can now have back abc.

A lot of abc is still disputed and these recent confrontations all took place in abc stretches rather than xyz.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Out of the ENTIRE historic dispute since 1950s, China already controls about 80% of it. Wants to establish stability on the rest and formally has offered India settlement where Chinese "claims" are even further into India's side. This proves that China is happy with what it already has but just wants to ensure India doesn't flare up issues and cause confrontations of troops patrolling and doesn't want India reinforcing because India has numeric and geographic advantage.

Also the recent confrontation sites are even more beyond what China has controlled before confrontation. Everything where there was confrontation has been taking place on India's side of right on the edge of what China claims or right on the edge of what China controlled. One of the three. At no point has India been confronting China within what China controlled EXCEPT for one IA intrusion into China's side at Reqin and then they were very quickly confronted and pushed out.
China obviously controlled fingers 4-8 enough to regularly patrol it and build roads, the latter of which India was unable to do. And the conflict spot of Hot springs is to the East of pp15, India's historic patrolling limit, meaning it is somewhere India never occupied before.

Same thing in Demchok, that is also between the dotted and blue line in the image you previously posted.

As for Rechin la, that was never vacated until Pangong disengagement.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
China reached well beyond blue line in general map at the end of 1962 war. China took two steps in and one step back. The one step back was to ensure the war ended at the point of time and space where China chooses. The war stopped China says we're taking xyz for good and you can now have back abc.

A lot of abc is still disputed and these recent confrontations all took place in abc stretches rather than xyz.
I understand that, but the area between the blue line and dotted line was still effectively controlled by China.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
It makes a lot more sense than your take.
How toned down a reply. I expected much more.

There are clear markings of water bodies (two streams) that join the river (Chang chenmo) between PP17A and PP19.

Your markings of PP19 is just meters away from PP17A , the water bodies far away.

Still think you've made the right markings?

I know why you marked it where you did. You did so to
1. Abide by the LAC as put forth by Google
2. Make sure your narrative is not eroded (that India didn't lose).
 
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