Ladakh Flash Point

twineedle said:

You are forgetting that back in May China had an issue with India building bridges in the Galwan Valley and near the mouth. THe Chinese embassy specifically used the term Galwan estuary.

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I'm not forgetting anything. You are bringing that up here to cement your previous position. Let me help

Your position was this - India has a problem with China having posts and armored divisions at the PP19.

You are trying to prove that China has issues with India too for border constructions India does. By that logic, both get even. Then you could argue that China failed in stopping Indian construction.


How nice. Won't be playing that game though.

Proving Ajai Shukla wrong is the easiest.
Simply show Indian posts or patrols in the regions that he claims China has intruded.

@twineedle.
Most would easily accept that evidence (if robust, cross checked and upto date).

Unless we have that, you may try to twist, beat around the bush and point fingers.

jfy1155 said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371697516396257283

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Can someone point these positions out on a larger map with all the main identifiable points?

Why would the Americans present China's control of certain limited parts of Demochok which it didn't control at all (like I think most of us agree) as if it is a Chinese invasion?? It isn't. Demchok is disputed like Pangong is disputed. Demchok locals (Indian ones) have no history of living there. That land does not belong to India anymore than it belongs to China. Moving locals in to make the claim stronger is something India did sooner than China because no one lives in this region of the world but Indian locals are FAR closer than Chinese ones. They're about as native to Demchok (disputed part) as British settlers are to Falklands island.

China has of course started trying the same methods India's done with building villages and moving people in.

@twineedle.

What is the significance of showing both sides confronting each other with the attempt of moving villagers in and allowing "locals" to use that land to graze. It just shows yet again that confrontations existed in the past just like Depsang to Galwan and Pangong with military confrontations in the past.

ougoah said:

Can someone point these positions out on a larger map with all the main identifiable points?

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Those are behind F8.

ougoah said:

Can someone point these positions out on a larger map with all the main identifiable points?

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Xsizor said:

Those are behind F8.
View attachment 69984

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So no then, China has not stabbed India in the back!

Look at these shameless liars at it again. Dunno if it's done to build up momentum to justify actually stabbing China in the back with respect to agreements on disengagement. I mean they probably will do it since the natural previous status was disturbed now but in a way that promotes fewer confrontations with buffer. Who knows how long until either side starts doing patrols. Will just need one small excuse like "they backstabbed and we need to make sure they aren't doing anything inside buffer".

Notice how random Indians and even higher profile ones can manipulate the narrative and set thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Indian thinking and believing the wrong thing so easily. Of course this guy is going to be called out because he's presenting an "Indian loss" kind of angle but the political statement made is more harmful for China than lying about Indians "winning" things.

A gaslighter and flame baiter using "ohh no India's being taken by China" lie.

ougoah said:

Why would the Americans present China's control of certain limited parts of Demochok which it didn't control at all (like I think most of us agree) as if it is a Chinese invasion?? It isn't. Demchok is disputed like Pangong is disputed. Demchok locals (Indian ones) have no history of living there. That land does not belong to India anymore than it belongs to China. Moving locals in to make the claim stronger is something India did sooner than China because no one lives in this region of the world but Indian locals are FAR closer than Chinese ones. They're about as native to Demchok (disputed part) as British settlers are to Falklands island.

China has of course started trying the same methods India's done with building villages and moving people in.

@twineedle.

What is the significance of showing both sides confronting each other with the attempt of moving villagers in and allowing "locals" to use that land to graze. It just shows yet again that confro.ntations existed in the past just like Depsang to Galwan and Pangong with military confrontations in the past.

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I actually agree with you. That is why I said that the Indian gov. does not consider Depsang and Demchok to be a part of the current standoff. However, there have been no issues at Galwan and Hot Springs since 1962.

Demchok has been inhabited for centuries. About 5-6 hundred people live there, mostly nomads. Almost all of them are local ladakhis, with the few non natives mostly being tibetan refugees who settled there in the 60s.

"When visited the area in 1847, he described Demchok as a "hamlet divided by a rivulet [the Lhari stream]", with settlements on both the sides of the stream. The stream was the prevailing border between Ladakh and Tibet. A governor (wazir-e-wazarat) of Ladakh visited the area in 1904–05 and found the Tibetan Demchok village housing 8 to 9 huts of zamindars (landholders) while the Ladakhi Demchok village had only two zamindars. The information was corroborated by , who travelled through the area in the November 1907. According to the Indian government, the Ladakhi Demchok village was used for seasonal cutivation by nomadic farmers."