JH-7/JH-7A/JH-7B Thread

[tphuang]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

some rumours on possible JH-7 development, of course, read at your own discretion as usual

————1、肥暴a相对于原型肥暴在外形上的明显变化主要是腹鳍换为钛合金超塑成形腹鳍，座舱风挡改为整体圆弧风挡。
其他改进主要集中于内部承力结构件改为钛合金，重构内部空间以利于新的机载设备安装，其老式航电系统改进为综合航电并换装jl10a这种改进型雷达。
至于发动机，已然是国产ws9，据说比原始斯贝推力大了几百kg。可以说变化不大。
————2、至于换装新式发动机的问题，现在还没有太明显的表现，泰山ws13现在还在试车，定型需要一段时间，至于对肥暴的适应性改进更待时日，而且气流量以及尺寸和安装位置都和ws9有所不同，肥暴要换后机身进气道等位置需要大动手术。
太行ws10现在正是香饽饽，歼十、歼十一都在争抢，肥暴一时半会根本排不上队，而且气流量以及尺寸和安装位置都和ws9差别很大，肥暴要换除了后机身进气道等位置需要大动手术之外，整个飞机也要进行气动、结构改进来适应发动机，难度不亚于重新设计一架飞机。
唯一一个有可能的就是西安红旗厂现在策划改进ws9的ws15，其推力变化不大，但是推比大有提高，蚝油率也会有大的下降，而且原型机就是肥暴现用发动机，改装难度不大，这样改装后也会有立竿见影的效果。
————3、肥暴今后的改进主要集中在提高挂载不同武器的适应能力，比如最近我在603以及西飞能够得到的资料显示，现在做的改进型就是要改装新的航电以及雷达，改装电传，并且改装前后缘机动襟翼以提高肥暴起降和机动能力。这些改进主要为了适应挂载空射弹道导弹的需要。至于具体是什么型号的导弹，我无可奉告（也不知道），下面就用一种出口的导弹b611为例来说明一下大概情况：
国内使用型的b611导弹现在主要还是作为陆军支援火力，为三联装运输－起竖－发射车，自重比航展b611有所增加，体积不变，在大大增加弹头重量情况下射程与出口型减轻弹头重量的最大射程相比还有富裕，出口型最大似乎是280－300km。空射型也就是在陆用型号之上稍加改进而成，根据肥暴的挂载能力和各个挂架承载能力，一架飞机挂载两枚也就四吨左右，完全可以视为飞机正常作战负载。改为空基，其射程随便估计一下也会提高到450km左右吧，而且这种东西末端速度根据航展资料也在6ma左右，如果根据df15、df11的成熟技术改为具有末端机动能力并且释放诱饵，更是让海上目标防不胜防——所以这种武器还是很有改装的必要地。

Some key points, mentionned the improvements from JH-7 to JH-7A including the usage of more composite material, one piece windshield and improved avionics.
- also mentionned that WS-9 possibly has more thrust than Spey.
- WS-13 and WS-10 are most likely not suitable for JH-7 due to the different dimensions and such
- the most likely replacement is WS-15, which has similar dimension to WS-9, but lighter, better T/W ratio and fuel consumption rate
- as for future improvements, it includes improved avionics, radar, flight control, flight performance
- the main modification is the change to allow for equipping of ballistic missiles
- can't comment on which BM to carry, but can possibly hold 2 of them (of 4 tonne each), the BM could incorporate technology from DF-11/15 like terminal maneuvering and decoy dispensing

 

[challenge]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

some rumours on possible JH-7 development, of course, read at your own discretion as usual



Some key points, mentionned the improvements from JH-7 to JH-7A including the usage of more composite material, one piece windshield and improved avionics.
- also mentionned that WS-9 possibly has more thrust than Spey.
- WS-13 and WS-10 are most likely not suitable for JH-7 due to the different dimensions and such
- the most likely replacement is WS-15, which has similar dimension to WS-9, but lighter, better T/W ratio and fuel consumption rate
- as for future improvements, it includes improved avionics, radar, flight control, flight performance
- the main modification is the change to allow for equipping of ballistic missiles
- can't comment on which BM to carry, but can possibly hold 2 of them (of 4 tonne each), the BM could incorporate technology from DF-11/15 like terminal maneuvering and decoy dispensing

the first line translate " that aircraft uses titanium alloy and super plastic forming.
second , use of system integration.
third is locally manufacture WS-9 offer slightly highter thrust than original Spey mk.202 (I doubt it,data release by Xian aircraft show Ws-9 and spey Mk.202 has identical dry and afterburner thrust,same rate of fuel consumption.)

 

[Chengdu J-10]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

Of course flying low doesn't make a plane invisible. What it does is reduce the effective range of radars trying to see it and adds more ground clutter for the radars to deal with.

Thats what I said in my last post, if you read it properly you can see that I said that. But anyway just a curious question how much structural or other modifications would be required to increase the JH-7/A range? As the range of the JH-7/A is not particular that great. I know that China is not yet seeking to strike other nations and stuff like that and is merley "currently" defending its nation. So currently their is no need to extend the JH-7/A range beyond Tawain. But in the near future China will exert its power beyond Tawain as everybody knows or suspects. So curious as the JH-7/A aircraft is newish what would the change be in increasing its range????

 

[crobato]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

They could acquire mid air refueling for one thing. Beyond that, it would be easier for China to design an entirely new bomber, or giving the H-6 design a modern update, which is exactly what they are doing now.

 

[tphuang]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

Thats what I said in my last post, if you read it properly you can see that I said that. But anyway just a curious question how much structural or other modifications would be required to increase the JH-7/A range? As the range of the JH-7/A is not particular that great. I know that China is not yet seeking to strike other nations and stuff like that and is merley "currently" defending its nation. So currently their is no need to extend the JH-7/A range beyond Tawain. But in the near future China will exert its power beyond Tawain as everybody knows or suspects. So curious as the JH-7/A aircraft is newish what would the change be in increasing its range????

JH-7A carrying 7000 kg of payload has a combat radius of 1650 km. I'd say that's quite sufficient. Keep in mind, most combat radius that you see are not under maximum payload.

 

[Chengdu J-10]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

They could acquire mid air refueling for one thing. Beyond that, it would be easier for China to design an entirely new bomber, or giving the H-6 design a modern update, which is exactly what they are doing now.

Hmmm yep the H-6 is indeed undergoing major upgrades and modifications with extra pylons and stuff. But being in service for several decades the design is getting old and obsolete. Though still capable without escorts the H-6 is extremely vulnerable to enemy attack. While the JH-7/A can at least sort of defend itself against enemy attacks. It is good to see the PLAAF though putting their old aircrafts to good use though. But soon the H-6 is going to retire sooner or later...

 

[crobato]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

The things is, the low flying interdictor role of the JH-7A also makes it vulnerable to SAMs including MANPADS. During the Cold War, both NATO and the Warsaw Pact executed this concept of low flying interdictors, embodied in planes like the F-111, the Tornadoes, the Jaguar, the Su-24, the MiG-27, and the variable winged Fitters. The JH-7 was concieved in the grand tradition of such.

This tradition took it hard during the Gulf War, where it proved that low flyers were vulnerable to SAMs. Losing one or two planes in the Libyan strike mission also showed that. Starting in Kosovo, we begin to fly higher instead, reducing vulnerability from SAMs, and drop satellite positioned bombs.

Old and slow, the H-6 still has a few things going for it. It has 3 times the amount of internal fuel compared even to an Su-34. Its long wingspan makes it ideal for flying high, where it can be used to drop satellite positioned weapons or launch long range cruise missiles. If you compare the cruise missile loadout of the H-6K versus the JH-7A, you will find that the H-6K can potentially carry as much as 8 cruise missiles compared to the JH-7A's four. The H-6 can carry much more equipment, crew, and radar it would need to support that purpose. And lately we have seen both developments with the PLA concerning both satellite positioned and long range standoff weapons.

The thing what the JH-7A does can be done with any other aircraft, J-11, J-10, etc,. but what the H-6 can do, only an H-6 can do.

Since both the H-6 and the JH-7 is made by the same company, the result you will end is a decision where you either are going to make more of one and less of the other.

 

[tphuang]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

this is interesting regarding to JH-7A and peace mission 2007
this was posted by spoiler dude, one of the most reliable sources online

据航空报四月六日报道，一航总经理林左鸣率队到杭州慰问空军某师，一航下属的西飞、雷电院、光电所、等也派人去了。 @#t0vs
HKFr3;%
因为该师的“飞豹”将参加今年在俄罗斯举行的“和平使命-2007”联合军事演习，一航以及下属企业制定了详细的服务保障计划，这也是飞豹向全世界展示的一次机会，不知有没有机会卖出几架。 U2m
这个师，就是空28师。为了去俄罗斯参加军演，上个月组织了一次实弹打靶，打完后对飞豹的火控系统提出了改进意见，多数被厂家认可，目前售后态度空军很满意。 &iG+h[w
,t4 fH
歼十要去，必须有参演科目，这是需要两国协商的。

basically saying that the 28th division JH-7A is going to Russia. This gives JH-7A a chance to display to the world, maybe achieve so exports. Apparently, they did some missile tests last time and then made some fire control upgrade suggestions, mostly accepted by companies, plaaf is very happy with the condition of JH-7A right now.

if J-10 is going, then there needs to be further discussion.

 

[SteelBird]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

this is interesting regarding to JH-7A and peace mission 2007
this was posted by spoiler dude, one of the most reliable sources online

basically saying that the 28th division JH-7A is going to Russia. This gives JH-7A a chance to display to the world, maybe achieve so exports. Apparently, they did some missile tests last time and then made some fire control upgrade suggestions, mostly accepted by companies, plaaf is very happy with the condition of JH-7A right now.

if J-10 is going, then there needs to be further discussion.

TP, there are a lot of bad coding in the Chinese quote.

No matter whatever upgrade to the JH-7A, I'm still not sastified with it without engines upgrade. They are too weak for such an aircraft. Do you think there is any option for its engines?

 

[tphuang]

Re: JH-7/JH-7A Thread

they are upgrading the engine, I'm sure. But the thing is that spey is the most fuel efficient engine that China has and that's what you want for your strike aircraft.