Re: JF-17: New Pics
maglomanic said:
So now you are implying that developing JF-17 led china to abondon it's next Gen fighters. Did it stop China from J-10 or J-11B or the latest fifth gen developments??
No thats propaply something that you need to basis your counter arguments one. I usually mean what I write. Im not that good english speaker that I have the luxury of surfing behind the words that much.
Is it really a singularity that aviation companies improve upon their existing designs to sell to another country. Examples
block 60 F-16 for UAE while USAF was pursuing F/A-22
upgrades to Mig-29(Mig-35 OVT) while Russia's next step is Pak-FA
M2K while Rafale is every plane for France.
So why exactly are you opposed to one country China's similar endevour when every one seems to be doing it. China is in for money, what is wrong with that. I am sorry if your larger than life expectations for 'advancement of aviations' are let down by business minded venture by Chinese aviation industry, but can't do much about it can we?
well basicly my orginal point was to cool down the general discusion that fantasyed over the propaganda that JF-17 is somewhat important milestone in aviation history or compable to F-16. If it offends you so much I can "whitdrawn" my words, as long as it takes to avoid us to drop into useless depate
I used the word doctrine first and foremost, and you totally ignored it. Doctrine takes into account limitations and optimum solution based on those limitations. Don't be too sarcastic when you use the word 'limitations', every nation and airforce have em and they shape the doctrine.If we go by your logic, there would be no need for JSF since F/A-22 is there. Most airforces use hi-lo mixes. If lo was just as much capable as hi then why would it be lo??
well what I understand from your own writings was that JF-17 is specially desinged to fit PAF needs. Now you are saying (the same thing that I tryed to say) that there is certain doctrine that JF-17 fits in well. These two things are totally different matters and you should also carefull whar you post...
Now lets take a look at your 'limitations taunt'
1)Indiginous production. Free from sanctions and restrictions on supplies.
2)Use of most of the munitions inventory.
3)Be able to fulfill mission profiles (dictated again by doctorine) of most types in PAF inventory.
4)Integration with concepts and tech newer to PAF (BVR,Datalink,HMS/HOBS)
those are all 'advantages' of JF-17 and I think that no one has tryed to deny them. Thougth posting it as some sort of counter arguments against my case that JF-17 is still rather limited desing is too narrow wieved. The overal conclusion of JF-17 comes when you compare these advantages to its downfalls and possiple solutions.
Now go ahead and explain what part of that you don't like in a plane that is meant to be lo side of the airforce. All this is not ebing done at the cost of hi aspect of the mix for which there will be newer f-16s and j-10s.
small and poor airforce like Pakistan has not afford to waste its money to build quantative force to counter bigger and stronger opponents. Ideal solution would be building smaller but 'qualative' force where JF-17 becomes useless. Having dedicated planes for different task and 'ends' is luxury of large air arms whit organic aviation industry. Countryes like Pakistan needs single plane type adequote enough to full fill all the three major task of fighters. JF-17 doesent fit in this picture. In paper yes, it looks like good and ideal ighter for small nations but Pakistan faces security threats of much larger scale. For that purpose, Pakistan would need plane more of J-10 capapility.
But thats just theoretical thinking, realism is different. JF-17 is going to be introduced to PAF wheter we like it or not. Its Pakistans sole obtion. So it doesent help you much to imagine some sort of 'doctrines' how its going to become the next generation of reserve or second line component od PAF to replace its Mirage III and J-7s. It replaces them, but not in the same strategical concept. In past the situation dictated PAF to go on for building this 'second' tier, but now as Pakistan has the change to get some thing more of 1st line fighter that still isent as good as it supposed to be, its selfdeception to imagine things how it best fit in ones ones daydream.
...And what comes to the J-10 and the fact that Pakistan didn't "choose" it instead of FC-1, you must remember that FC-1/JF-17 is basicly the result of the Super-7 program from the eightyes. The basic foundation of buying a small relatively modern fighter from china with Pakistan funds where layed back then. The US sanctions over F404 and APG-66 considerably slowed the program and thus came the present Fc-1. So Pakistan was making the intial decicion to buy the plane before the J-10 was even designed...simple as that.
P.S: Do start spending more time inside home cause the cold is getting to you...(atleast i am staying in context of your geographical 'limitations' if you think thsi is personal. Personal remarks like take your 'white and green' glasses off ask for similar personal remarks)
Hohooo...dont even dare to venture on that road. There wasent anything personal in its negative meaning, only generalization and my personal style. Im the last person in this forum to you to seek possiple confrontation out of things that doesent exist
