JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media

maglomanic

Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics

Gollevainen said:
Like the mainsite said the Super-7 led directly to the FC-1, and as I said earlyer, acording to highly thrustable source, Pakistan was involved to the Super-7 as it was designed to be operated by PAF in the first place, like Fc-1 nowadays....Sinodefence doesen't deny it, and what comes to other websites, i prefere printed books over any website...perhaps you others should do it too...
Pakistan wasn't very active until 1995. Mostly super-7 was to replace huge numbers of j-7s in PLAAF inventory. Pakistan during the days of super-7 was more inetersted in F-16s. Diving Falcon should be able to confirm that Pakistan infact turn down cooperation on this plane in the begining (1989 i guess). The early era doesn't include Paksitan or it's requirements at all. If you have evidence otherwise i would be really grateful if you could get something here.

but to other things...
Well if you want to see them that way. But if we take another look, then...
1) Not nesserily. Its more do the airspace and placing of the squardons, not the actual plane or its numbers per squardon.
2) Same thing. im not saying that PAF should bye only dozen modern jets and
place them in one airbase.
3) People who operates the planes makes you predictible and wheter you want others to know what you are doing, not the planes.
4) Not excatly. The idea is to have multirole plane, being flexiple enogh to fullfill all the missions that airforce size of PAF has to manage. And again its more factor of unit organisation and command echelons, not aircrafts themselfs.

Currently PAF operates nearly 400 planes. What would be yoru suggested numbers?? I don't think PAF can go for more than 200 high end planes.
Thats not enough numbers.

1)Less numbers translate into less numbers flying at a given time and thus less coverage of airspace. You cannot expect all the airforce to be in the air at a given time. Even doing that puts logistical pressures on the support effort and undue number of hours on your planes and engines. Not good for both.
2) When you have planes with their hands full in all theaters not having suffiecient numbers will translate into more time taken to respond.Flows from one pretty much. You can probably put up a good show in the begining and send as many as possible but to sustain this effort in the face of escalation of operations and attiration will definitely bring down response time.
3) Knowing the hardware is part of the threat assesment. Infact i would say second only to knowing the tactics and sometimes equally important. By having just one or two types you pretty much ensure that your enemy just prepares for those scenarios that involve those threats.
4)Multirole planes is the need and i totally agree with that. But having less multirole doesn't compensate for the sorti rate that would be needed to help out sister services. With less numbers there is only so much you can do. Less numbers directly affects priorties of airforce in a conflict.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics

Well i have not that much over it, but you can bet much that i will dig up more ;)

...anyway to the strategical issues...200 sounds rather good number, better if it would be 200 new modern planes and around 200-100 older modernised planes from the previous generation...offcourse PAF has one of the most unique mixtures and composition of its fighter fleets, so it would need tailored decissions. But some of the proplems would remain, then again whit some re-structuring many of them would be easily overcome. Anyway Im not wanna continue the argumenting over same arguments repeated over and over again so I just say whit my last word the one that politicans want to hear: Whit modern of-the-self aircraft PAF can fly well beyond to couple of decades before entering into another consuming replacement program. Whit JF-17 that point comes ahead lot sooner.
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
Re: JF-17: New Pics

If modern equipment would guarantee everything then the US would be happy to dump all planes except some f22 and JSF. There is as usual a high low mix. Exactly that is the reason why Europe is unhappy with JSF cause it is indeed the low part of the hi-lo in the US but Europe has nothing else...

Pakistan needs certain quantity to protect against India. There is already 1:5... You wanna achieve 1:10 and still see it as wise move? And how do you expect to fund 200 aircraft if high tech is between 70-150 million dollars a piece?
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Re: JF-17: New Pics

Exactly that is the reason why Europe is unhappy with JSF cause it is indeed the low part of the hi-lo in the US but Europe has nothing else...

If JSF can be europes, high, than the Ef2000, rafale, and gripen can be the low. The reason europe is disappointed is that the u.s is not providing all of the promised features on the JSF.

Pakistan needs certain quantity to protect against India. There is already 1:5... You wanna achieve 1:10 and still see it as wise move? And how do you expect to fund 200 aircraft if high tech is between 70-150 million dollars a piece?

What are you trying to say? none of the fighters pakistan plans to buy are anywhere near that price range. Besides, india needs to spread its air force over a larger region, so hte numbers advantage isnt so big.
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
Miggy,
Thats an understatement regarding they have to spread over a large area. If you look at their air commands you'll see 90 percent of them are on west with heavy concentration in north west. Same holds true for PAF deployments.

Gollevainen said:
Well i have not that much over it, but you can bet much that i will dig up more ;)

...anyway to the strategical issues...200 sounds rather good number, better if it would be 200 new modern planes and around 200-100 older modernised planes from the previous generation...offcourse PAF has one of the most unique mixtures and composition of its fighter fleets, so it would need tailored decissions. But some of the proplems would remain, then again whit some re-structuring many of them would be easily overcome. Anyway Im not wanna continue the argumenting over same arguments repeated over and over again so I just say whit my last word the one that politicans want to hear: Whit modern of-the-self aircraft PAF can fly well beyond to couple of decades before entering into another consuming replacement program. Whit JF-17 that point comes ahead lot sooner.

Golly,
I have a feeling that this discussion have gone astray from JF-17 to PAF's doctrine and i appologize for contributing to it (fully understand your reluctance to further this discussion you being a moderator )

However i feel that no matter what the arguments given to you by me you still seem to have very 'strong' reservations to what i have said. I would really be interested in a more elaborate discussion in other thread without miring this one. And don't think i am trying to challenge you or anything, it's just that i am curious and given the possibility that i might be over looking something.
 
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Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics

Yeas it has gone...particularry becouse I had bad day and perhaps I brusted my fustration bit too hars on poor JF-17. And generally arguing over decisions made by some armed force allready is bit pointless, couse Im not saying that PAF are bunch of loonatics, only that they propaply havent got what they wanted wiht JF-17...
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics

maglomanic said:
Miggy,
Thats an understatement regarding they have to spread over a large area. If you look at their air commands you'll see 90 percent of them are on west with heavy concentration in north west. Same holds true for PAF deployments.
Although this is the incorrect thread, it must be mentioned, that the above information is false.
Munir said:
Pakistan needs certain quantity to protect against India. There is already 1:5...
All of India's aircraft do not target Pakistan. It must be remembered that India has significantly large border with China and Bangladesh also, besides proximity to Malaysia and Indonesia.
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics

Indianfighter said:
Although this is the incorrect thread, it must be mentioned, that the above information is false.

I'll pm you the link and we can further discuss it from there onwards without involving this thread.
 

petty officer1

Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics

264248.jpg

264249.jpg

264251.jpg


Is the last picture in china or pakistan?
 
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