JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media
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skyhawk2005
Banned Idiot
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Yah sure. Maybe the Pakistanis can do that for future versions of the FC1/JF17. But I doubt it.
SteelBird said:
Yah sure. Maybe the Pakistanis can do that for future versions of the FC1/JF17. But I doubt it.
Re: JF-17: New Pics
And force them to redeisng the plane completely again??? The engine size comes whit the plane size...a pair of RD93 would make it an Hornet/MiG-29/Phantom size plane and 1 Al-31 would make it f-16/j-10 size...and that isent done by simply enlarging the desing figures....building aircrafts isent the same as playing whit lego blocks....
And force them to redeisng the plane completely again??? The engine size comes whit the plane size...a pair of RD93 would make it an Hornet/MiG-29/Phantom size plane and 1 Al-31 would make it f-16/j-10 size...and that isent done by simply enlarging the desing figures....building aircrafts isent the same as playing whit lego blocks....
Re: JF-17: New Pics
currently, there is no evidence of a large order of FC-1 by China, but the J-10 order is through the roof.
1. range (whether combat radius or ferry range)
2. payload (J-10 is far greater than 4500 KG, check F-16 for a better idea)
3. more hardpoint + greater payload -> more AAMs, can engage more BVR targets and such, can carry both AAMs and PGMs
4. much greater T/W ratio
5. much more unstable design
6. J-10 has 3D TVC and canard
7. 4 to 6 means much much better maneuverability and speed at all altitudes
8. better EW suite (better RWR, MAW and such)
9. better materials used for airframe - more composite and such, this is where much of the cost differences between J-10 and FC-1 comes into play
10. more advanced FBW, the one on J-10 is 3-axis quadriplex digital FBW and the one on JF-17 uses analog in one of the axis
11. generally the latest Chinese radar gets tested on J-10 first, so it will always have the advantage of having the most advanced Chinese radar
12. same with all other Chinese avionics systems
i will explain the differences later.Indianfighter said:
currently, there is no evidence of a large order of FC-1 by China, but the J-10 order is through the roof.
now let me give you an extension. For example on the sale of J-7s to Bangladesh. The market value is $10 million (or at least that's what the Bangladeshis thought) and the J-7s are sold for $5.85 million each. So, everyone thinks that China is loosing out on this, but in reality, China is still turning a profit. On the surface, it's a loosing contract, but behind the scenes, it's not.
it is modified on an existing Chinese design, you do realize that right? It can be argued that China has more claim for royalties over al-khalid than Pakistan has over JF-17 since.
too many advantages from J-10 over FC-1:
1. range (whether combat radius or ferry range)
2. payload (J-10 is far greater than 4500 KG, check F-16 for a better idea)
3. more hardpoint + greater payload -> more AAMs, can engage more BVR targets and such, can carry both AAMs and PGMs
4. much greater T/W ratio
5. much more unstable design
6. J-10 has 3D TVC and canard
7. 4 to 6 means much much better maneuverability and speed at all altitudes
8. better EW suite (better RWR, MAW and such)
9. better materials used for airframe - more composite and such, this is where much of the cost differences between J-10 and FC-1 comes into play
10. more advanced FBW, the one on J-10 is 3-axis quadriplex digital FBW and the one on JF-17 uses analog in one of the axis
11. generally the latest Chinese radar gets tested on J-10 first, so it will always have the advantage of having the most advanced Chinese radar
12. same with all other Chinese avionics systems
FreeAsia2000
Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Yeah so essentially the J-10 will be used to combat planes equivalent to the F-18.
Pakistan will buy the JF-17 however if F-18 level planes become the mainstay fighters in surrounding countries then pakistan is going to have to get rid of the JF-17 because i'm not sure if it can be upgraded enough
Gollevainen said:
Yeah so essentially the J-10 will be used to combat planes equivalent to the F-18.
Pakistan will buy the JF-17 however if F-18 level planes become the mainstay fighters in surrounding countries then pakistan is going to have to get rid of the JF-17 because i'm not sure if it can be upgraded enough
Re: JF-17: New Pics
exactly...I have sometimes wondered, if the Pakistanese participation in JF-17 is more of sponsor level than actual devolper, Why the PAF simply hasent supported chinese J-10 production and getting change to recieve it instead of the rather pedestrial FC-1 which magnificent performance limits mainly to imagition of some PDF hothead's? I mean (whit out any country bashing or otherwise detoriate 'hidden meanings' ) JF-17 is a that size of plane that pakistanese (or country of pakistans size) should have produced by themselves.... its rather certain that these f-18 level fighter will become service in India and Iran, in fact they already have become in limited extence.
exactly...I have sometimes wondered, if the Pakistanese participation in JF-17 is more of sponsor level than actual devolper, Why the PAF simply hasent supported chinese J-10 production and getting change to recieve it instead of the rather pedestrial FC-1 which magnificent performance limits mainly to imagition of some PDF hothead's? I mean (whit out any country bashing or otherwise detoriate 'hidden meanings' ) JF-17 is a that size of plane that pakistanese (or country of pakistans size) should have produced by themselves.... its rather certain that these f-18 level fighter will become service in India and Iran, in fact they already have become in limited extence.
Black jack
New Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Indian fighter pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.
TP, You can write and assume all you like and we can carry on going around in circles because most of the stuff you come out with is not concrete because theres alot of secrecy. As i said before you argue your assumptions as though they are fact.
I still think the J-10 is nothing more than an F-16, of a higher block at that. The JF-17 of a lower, but both under F-16. The thing with the J-10 is that it has good potential to pull away from the whole "F-16" thing, which i'm sure we will see in the near future...but you talk as though it's already king of the skies and has reached its peak, It is yet to mature and evolve. There's no doubt it's China's top plane, but every plane has its role, be it a J-10/11 with a deeper strike role or a JF-17 at point defence.
Also, just bcause they're producing alot of J-10's doesn't mean it will replace all the older J's, that's not enough good reason. It's blatently obvious that they're are going to have a large number of J-10's.
It seems you just have a one set mind. We can keep going around in circles, but best thing to do is wait for something official...rather then rumours/assumptions etc. Peace :china:
FYI I'm not Pakistani by the way...Keep that in mind when/if you reply. So you know i'm not trying to be all chummy in terms of Pakistan and China joint freindship production blah blah. I couldn't care less...I'm just using logic with what i know regarding the JF-17 production issue. I just think you have a chip on your shoulder with regard to how magnificent China and J-10 are/is...you over estimate both. Patriotism is good, but it can blind you.
Indian fighter pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.
TP, You can write and assume all you like and we can carry on going around in circles because most of the stuff you come out with is not concrete because theres alot of secrecy. As i said before you argue your assumptions as though they are fact.
I still think the J-10 is nothing more than an F-16, of a higher block at that. The JF-17 of a lower, but both under F-16. The thing with the J-10 is that it has good potential to pull away from the whole "F-16" thing, which i'm sure we will see in the near future...but you talk as though it's already king of the skies and has reached its peak, It is yet to mature and evolve. There's no doubt it's China's top plane, but every plane has its role, be it a J-10/11 with a deeper strike role or a JF-17 at point defence.
Also, just bcause they're producing alot of J-10's doesn't mean it will replace all the older J's, that's not enough good reason. It's blatently obvious that they're are going to have a large number of J-10's.
It seems you just have a one set mind. We can keep going around in circles, but best thing to do is wait for something official...rather then rumours/assumptions etc. Peace :china:
FYI I'm not Pakistani by the way...Keep that in mind when/if you reply. So you know i'm not trying to be all chummy in terms of Pakistan and China joint freindship production blah blah. I couldn't care less...I'm just using logic with what i know regarding the JF-17 production issue. I just think you have a chip on your shoulder with regard to how magnificent China and J-10 are/is...you over estimate both. Patriotism is good, but it can blind you.
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skyhawk2005
Banned Idiot
Re: JF-17: New Pics
If China were going to purchase JF17/FC1 for it's own Airforce, don't you think it would be announced already?
But it has not been announced. All we have heard is Pakistan telling China to buy it. We have not heard an answer from China.
We do know that the FC1 was meant as an export plane only.
Nobody is saying China will replace J7 with J10 on 1:1 basis. Do you know how many J7's China has? But there should be no doubt that J10 will be the main fighter for China. They will produce these by the 1000s.
It is YOU who are making assumptions that China will purchase JF17s. Too many people make assumptions that the JF17 will serve as a point defence fighter for China. Why would they need the JF17 for? They already have 1000s of J7s and hundreds of J8 for point defence/interceptor role.
No. The J10 and J11 will be the ONLY planes for China until the JXX is finished.
The JF17/FC1 has no role for China.
Black jack said:
If China were going to purchase JF17/FC1 for it's own Airforce, don't you think it would be announced already?
But it has not been announced. All we have heard is Pakistan telling China to buy it. We have not heard an answer from China.
We do know that the FC1 was meant as an export plane only.
Nobody is saying China will replace J7 with J10 on 1:1 basis. Do you know how many J7's China has? But there should be no doubt that J10 will be the main fighter for China. They will produce these by the 1000s.
It is YOU who are making assumptions that China will purchase JF17s. Too many people make assumptions that the JF17 will serve as a point defence fighter for China. Why would they need the JF17 for? They already have 1000s of J7s and hundreds of J8 for point defence/interceptor role.
No. The J10 and J11 will be the ONLY planes for China until the JXX is finished.
The JF17/FC1 has no role for China.
FreeAsia2000
Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
How do you see the role of the Super J-10 ?
Why has it been designated the super J-10 rather than J-10B ?
How easy will it be to upgrade from J-10 to Super J-10 considering
the difference between the engines ?
Also I don't understand why Pakistan is buying such large numbers of the
JF-17. I mean they are going to be cannon fodder for F-18's and a hideous
waste of money
The only use for the recent batch of arms purchases such as JF-17's and helicopters seems to
be internal suppression rather than external defense
How do you see the role of the Super J-10 ?
Why has it been designated the super J-10 rather than J-10B ?
How easy will it be to upgrade from J-10 to Super J-10 considering
the difference between the engines ?
Also I don't understand why Pakistan is buying such large numbers of the
JF-17. I mean they are going to be cannon fodder for F-18's and a hideous
waste of money
The only use for the recent batch of arms purchases such as JF-17's and helicopters seems to
be internal suppression rather than external defense
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Black jack
New Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Mate, I never said China will or won't buy the JF-17. I indicated that in my opinion which i'm entitled to...there is a place for JF-17 in the PLAAF. *****NO FLAMING****Just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they ain't buying it...apparently J-10 doesn't even exist...officially or until recently right? When it blatently did. Like i said...lets stop presuming and wait for some solid news. Either way, whether China buys it or not...Pakistan will continue with its purchase regardless and it will be marketed for export nevertheless.
In terms of J7, they're old and crap. Time will tell. Also...when did Pakistan tell China to buy the FC1? Are you presuming again? Last i heard there were "rumours" of 250 for China or so but no one officially said anything from either side. There is an air of unease among Chinese who wouldn't like to see the FC1 in the PLAAF and were already hearing excuses like "oh if they purchase it, it's only going to be because they are under pressure to bring the price down"!! I hope they purchase it now!
[Watch the words you chose FLAMING will not be tolorated
bd popeye moderator
skyhawk2005 said:
Mate, I never said China will or won't buy the JF-17. I indicated that in my opinion which i'm entitled to...there is a place for JF-17 in the PLAAF. *****NO FLAMING****Just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they ain't buying it...apparently J-10 doesn't even exist...officially or until recently right? When it blatently did. Like i said...lets stop presuming and wait for some solid news. Either way, whether China buys it or not...Pakistan will continue with its purchase regardless and it will be marketed for export nevertheless.
In terms of J7, they're old and crap. Time will tell. Also...when did Pakistan tell China to buy the FC1? Are you presuming again? Last i heard there were "rumours" of 250 for China or so but no one officially said anything from either side. There is an air of unease among Chinese who wouldn't like to see the FC1 in the PLAAF and were already hearing excuses like "oh if they purchase it, it's only going to be because they are under pressure to bring the price down"!! I hope they purchase it now!
[Watch the words you chose FLAMING will not be tolorated
bd popeye moderator
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