JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
- Start date
Re: JF-17: New Pics
alright, I've continued this for too long, so I will just drop this now.
As for the interesting question of how plaaf/plan will shape up in the future.
By 2015, I would say 750 J-10, 300 flankers, 150 JH-7, 150 J-8, 50 H-6
That's 1400 planes, is there room for JF-17? I guess we will see.
alright, I've continued this for too long, so I will just drop this now.
I have no idea where you got the idea that MBT-2000 was a contract outsourcing.Indianfighter said:
Again, in a normal configuration, 2 MRAAM and 2 SRAAM for JF-17. 4 MRAAM and 2 SRAAM for J-10. J-10's "useful load" is 4500 kg? Where did you get this from? It's more like 7000 vs 3800 kg.
DSI helps, but 04 is still hopelessly mismatched in every category.
I should've been more specific. JF-17 gets the export version and J-10 gets the domestic version. Again, the latest EW suite gets tested on J-10 first.
Pakistan is only talking to UK about the radar. And J-10 has larger nose -> more powerful radar. At the same time, it's RCS is likely not larger due to the more advanced design. by the time Pakistan can actually get the AESA radar from UK, let's see if J-10 has AESA radar by the time (my feeling is that it will, but then again we will need a whole new discussion on the development of China's fighter radar)
J-10 is purely air-superiority right now.
one for export and one for plaaf. That's why many people in China do not think there is a place for FC-1.
PAF is purchasing J-10 as their air superiority fighter from what I read from the Pakistani posters. JF-17 is the low cost work horse of PAF and J-10 is probably looked at as the high tech frontline plane.
As for the interesting question of how plaaf/plan will shape up in the future.
By 2015, I would say 750 J-10, 300 flankers, 150 JH-7, 150 J-8, 50 H-6
That's 1400 planes, is there room for JF-17? I guess we will see.
Indianfighter
Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
JF-17 can also carry 6 A2A missiles in sacrifice for A2G load (purely air-superiority). The J-10 can only carry some more A2G load than the JF-17 in addition to the 6 A2A missiles.(multirole)
- JF-17 / FC-1 has a computer controlled infra-red interference bullet (missile?) system, which automatically calculate the right timing (based on the rsult of detecting system) to release the interference bullets to maximaze the impact. Only recently released airplanes such as F-22 / Rafale have such system. Even F-18E/F and F-16 E/F need further upgrading to acquire such capacity.
- JF-17 also has an "focused interference system", which can focus the enegy on one direction (i.e. attacking missile's guiding system) to distrub it. By doing this, a small equipment can have the same impact as a large electronic warfare airplane in that particular direction. Initially FJ-17 / Fc-1 did not have this system. However, in view of the fact that Pak's potential enemy is IAF equiped with Su-30 & R-77 missiles, CAC add this system into the plane. As of today, no india airplane has such system nor do PAk's f-16s.
Source:
Although its true that CAC maufactures the J-10 and JF-17, but is it possible that these systems are present only on the JF-17 ?
J-10's maximum load carrying capacity is 4500 kgs (according to wikipedia though). 7000 kgs is actually closer to the load-capacity of F-15 and Su-30 (that has twice the J-10's thrust).tphuang said:
JF-17 can also carry 6 A2A missiles in sacrifice for A2G load (purely air-superiority). The J-10 can only carry some more A2G load than the JF-17 in addition to the 6 A2A missiles.(multirole)
Now Pakdef members were discussing that Grifo wanted to put an 800mm radar onto the JF-17. Anyways it is likely that PAF will get a very capable radar for the JF-17 from either Grifo or UK.
- JF-17 / FC-1 has a computer controlled infra-red interference bullet (missile?) system, which automatically calculate the right timing (based on the rsult of detecting system) to release the interference bullets to maximaze the impact. Only recently released airplanes such as F-22 / Rafale have such system. Even F-18E/F and F-16 E/F need further upgrading to acquire such capacity.
- JF-17 also has an "focused interference system", which can focus the enegy on one direction (i.e. attacking missile's guiding system) to distrub it. By doing this, a small equipment can have the same impact as a large electronic warfare airplane in that particular direction. Initially FJ-17 / Fc-1 did not have this system. However, in view of the fact that Pak's potential enemy is IAF equiped with Su-30 & R-77 missiles, CAC add this system into the plane. As of today, no india airplane has such system nor do PAk's f-16s.
Source:
Although its true that CAC maufactures the J-10 and JF-17, but is it possible that these systems are present only on the JF-17 ?
Last edited:
skyhawk2005
Banned Idiot
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Indianfighter, you need to stop wasting everyone's time. I suggest people do not respond to Indianfighter's comments anymore. He needs to do the research himself, and get informed. Otherwise, this is just flame-baiting.
Indianfighter said:
Indianfighter, you need to stop wasting everyone's time. I suggest people do not respond to Indianfighter's comments anymore. He needs to do the research himself, and get informed. Otherwise, this is just flame-baiting.
FreeAsia2000
Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Well essentially the question for Pakistan is does it wants it's airforce
to either
a. achieve air superiority
b. air supremacy
c. deny the above to an adversary
d. support the land forces
The JF-17 maximum load carrying capacity is too low for d. and certainly
nobody seems to have learnt the lessons of Pathankot
How will the JF-17 shape up by 2015 ?
Well essentially the question for Pakistan is does it wants it's airforce
to either
a. achieve air superiority
b. air supremacy
c. deny the above to an adversary
d. support the land forces
The JF-17 maximum load carrying capacity is too low for d. and certainly
nobody seems to have learnt the lessons of Pathankot
How will the JF-17 shape up by 2015 ?
maglomanic
Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Let me put it this way:
a. First and foremost, deny enemy air force Pakistan's airspace.
b. Deny enemy air force air superiority over battlefield (that would be border area extending both sides of the border)
c. Close air support.
d. Deep strikes to undermine enemy's control in it's own space.
e. Air supriority or attempt to establish that in enemy air space or over battle field to bloster b and c and possibly d.
Now if you go by order the very first is the very basic requirement and aspiration. 'b' and 'c' pretty much flow from 'a' as that requires just showing up to hinder enemy over battlefield and getting some success at hindering them.
If you look at 'd' and 'e', those are very difficult and specialized missions which are pretty much beyond scope of JF-17. Jf-17 pretty much does a,b,c where as J-10/F-16s fit into d,e role.
Do expect alot of stand off and cruise missile exchange however combined with a,b,c,d.
FreeAsia2000 said:
Let me put it this way:
a. First and foremost, deny enemy air force Pakistan's airspace.
b. Deny enemy air force air superiority over battlefield (that would be border area extending both sides of the border)
c. Close air support.
d. Deep strikes to undermine enemy's control in it's own space.
e. Air supriority or attempt to establish that in enemy air space or over battle field to bloster b and c and possibly d.
Now if you go by order the very first is the very basic requirement and aspiration. 'b' and 'c' pretty much flow from 'a' as that requires just showing up to hinder enemy over battlefield and getting some success at hindering them.
If you look at 'd' and 'e', those are very difficult and specialized missions which are pretty much beyond scope of JF-17. Jf-17 pretty much does a,b,c where as J-10/F-16s fit into d,e role.
Do expect alot of stand off and cruise missile exchange however combined with a,b,c,d.
maglomanic
Junior Member
Re: JF-17: New Pics
I would expect PAF's J-10 to be something approaching or equaling the class of F-16 C/Ds. That would mean much more multirole than just airsupriority. You can also infer it by the cut down in acquisations of C/Ds as opposed to A/Bs which are mostly for air supriroity. And yes J-10 is considered by PAF as frontline
tphuang said:
I would expect PAF's J-10 to be something approaching or equaling the class of F-16 C/Ds. That would mean much more multirole than just airsupriority. You can also infer it by the cut down in acquisations of C/Ds as opposed to A/Bs which are mostly for air supriroity. And yes J-10 is considered by PAF as frontline
Re: JF-17: New Pics
There is no such thing as 'enough thrust' versus 'not enough thrust' in a2a combat. Every little bit helps. Thrust alone, of course, doesn't have to mean a lot. If you have a huge plane it will need more thrust just to defeat the extra drag that comes from its size. Same goes for shaping. But its always better to have more. It may be good that you can accelerate to mach 1 in half a minute - but its even better if you can do it in 28 seconds. Or 26, or 25... and so on. A plane may have thrust/weight ratio of 1:1 but its always better to put extra thrust. Cause you never know how much that one second is going to help you when theres an enemy plane/missile on your tail.
Whereas thrust does not come into play in the horizontal manoeuvrability, in the vertical it is absolute king. And one of best ways to bleed off missile's energy is to point up and burn your way up vertically. Even in horizontal, once youve finished your turn, lost a lot of speed - you will need to regain that speed ASAP - by having as high thrust possible while having least drag possible.
There is no such thing as 'enough thrust' versus 'not enough thrust' in a2a combat. Every little bit helps. Thrust alone, of course, doesn't have to mean a lot. If you have a huge plane it will need more thrust just to defeat the extra drag that comes from its size. Same goes for shaping. But its always better to have more. It may be good that you can accelerate to mach 1 in half a minute - but its even better if you can do it in 28 seconds. Or 26, or 25... and so on. A plane may have thrust/weight ratio of 1:1 but its always better to put extra thrust. Cause you never know how much that one second is going to help you when theres an enemy plane/missile on your tail.
Whereas thrust does not come into play in the horizontal manoeuvrability, in the vertical it is absolute king. And one of best ways to bleed off missile's energy is to point up and burn your way up vertically. Even in horizontal, once youve finished your turn, lost a lot of speed - you will need to regain that speed ASAP - by having as high thrust possible while having least drag possible.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: JF-17: New Pics
Enough of the thurst talk...its clear already the jf-17 will not dominate the vertical area.
China, Pakistan Test Fly New FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jet
Indian Government news
Fri, 12 May 2006, 00:31
Continuing to strengthen the existing defence ties between the two countries, China and Pakistan held the maiden operational test flight of a prototype of 'JF-17 Thunder' multi-role combat aircraft, paving way for serial production for their own use as well as for exports.
According to the news agency, the fourth prototype aircraft JF-17 Thunder took off from a People's Liberation Army Air Force airbase in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan province.
Chief of the Pakistan Air Force Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed along with a high-level Sino-Pakistani military delegation witnessed the test flight, the agency said.
Notifying the importance of the maiden test flight, the defence sources said, the "success" at the first operational test flight would enable China and Pakistan to formally start its production for their own use as well as for exports to developing countries.
Formal production of the new aircraft would start marking a major leap forward in bilateral cooperation of the two countries in the defence sector, the sources said. Further the PAF is expecting the delivery of first JF-17 aircraft in early 2007.
Moreover it plans to induct more than 100 JF-17 Thunder aircraft to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters F-7 and A-5.
At first, the aircraft equipped with advanced electronics and weapon systems will be manufactured at Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC). Later, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra will start production of the aircraft in June 2007.
The JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jet - To View Pictures and Videos of the JF-17 Fighter, Click Here
Previously China has test-flown prototypes PT-1, PT-2 and PT-3 focussing on operational flight capabilities.
The PT-4 prototype test-flown today was to assess the aircraft's avionics and weapons integration, sources said.
According to the Pakistani media, incorporating advanced design and state-of-the-art technology, the aircraft will envisage comprehensive combat capability of a third generation fighter.
In view of the experts, with advanced design and manufacturing technology, the export-oriented fighter plane is small, low-cost and suitable for modern warfare and the demands of military fighters, one report said.
Besides, the JF-17 fighter jet project, which China and Pakistan jointly funded, started in 1999 when CATIC signed a co-operative agreement with the Pakistan Air Force.
Since then, CATIC, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Company, Chengdu Aircraft Designing Institute and the Pakistan Air Force have been developing aircraft.
It appears 04 has a new paint job
Enough of the thurst talk...its clear already the jf-17 will not dominate the vertical area.
China, Pakistan Test Fly New FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jet
Indian Government news
Fri, 12 May 2006, 00:31
Continuing to strengthen the existing defence ties between the two countries, China and Pakistan held the maiden operational test flight of a prototype of 'JF-17 Thunder' multi-role combat aircraft, paving way for serial production for their own use as well as for exports.
According to the news agency, the fourth prototype aircraft JF-17 Thunder took off from a People's Liberation Army Air Force airbase in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan province.
Chief of the Pakistan Air Force Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed along with a high-level Sino-Pakistani military delegation witnessed the test flight, the agency said.
Notifying the importance of the maiden test flight, the defence sources said, the "success" at the first operational test flight would enable China and Pakistan to formally start its production for their own use as well as for exports to developing countries.
Formal production of the new aircraft would start marking a major leap forward in bilateral cooperation of the two countries in the defence sector, the sources said. Further the PAF is expecting the delivery of first JF-17 aircraft in early 2007.
Moreover it plans to induct more than 100 JF-17 Thunder aircraft to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters F-7 and A-5.
At first, the aircraft equipped with advanced electronics and weapon systems will be manufactured at Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC). Later, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra will start production of the aircraft in June 2007.
The JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jet - To View Pictures and Videos of the JF-17 Fighter, Click Here
Previously China has test-flown prototypes PT-1, PT-2 and PT-3 focussing on operational flight capabilities.
The PT-4 prototype test-flown today was to assess the aircraft's avionics and weapons integration, sources said.
According to the Pakistani media, incorporating advanced design and state-of-the-art technology, the aircraft will envisage comprehensive combat capability of a third generation fighter.
In view of the experts, with advanced design and manufacturing technology, the export-oriented fighter plane is small, low-cost and suitable for modern warfare and the demands of military fighters, one report said.
Besides, the JF-17 fighter jet project, which China and Pakistan jointly funded, started in 1999 when CATIC signed a co-operative agreement with the Pakistan Air Force.
Since then, CATIC, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Company, Chengdu Aircraft Designing Institute and the Pakistan Air Force have been developing aircraft.
It appears 04 has a new paint job