JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Zahid

Junior Member
Cross post from defense.pk

The source is said to be Janes. Notice the information about Engine technology, presumably used in WS-13.
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Dubai Airshow 2013: Pakistan looks to Block 3 variant of JF-17


Author:Reuben F Johnson, Dubai
Last posted:2013-Nov-22

At this year's Dubai Airshow officials from the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra discussed their plans for a future Block 3 variant of the Chengdu JF-17/FC-1 fighter now that the Block 2 model has a mature configuration. The aircraft is produced jointly by the PAC and Chengdu Aerospace Corporation in China.

"The Block 3 aircraft now exists in the form of a conceptual design and a list of mission requirements," said one of the senior Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officers assigned to the programme, "but no concrete decisions have been made about the choice and configuration of the onboard systems for the aircraft."

Despite proposals to replace the JF-17's existing radar and electronic warfare systems, the PAF officers who said they are happy with the performance of the aircraft's current Chinese systems and have no plans to replace these with other third-country alternatives. Specifically, the PAF expressed satisfaction with the radar set and the KG300G electronic warfare pod, both of which are produced by different institutes of the China Electronics Technology Corporation (CETC). These enterprises are co-located in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, along with Aircraft Plant No 132, which manufactures the JF-17.

However, if there is to be a series-produced FC-1 variant that is operated by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) the "rigid security protocols in China will not permit them to operate the aircraft with a common [to the Pakistani aircraft] set of onboard systems," said a Chinese industry specialist with inside knowledge of the programme.

One major JF-17 subsystem that has long been the subject of a possible replacement is the Russian-made Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 jet engine: a modified version of Mikoyan's MiG-29 RD-33 power plant. Numerous stories over the years have discussed replacing this engine with the WS-13 engine produced by the Liyang Aeroengine Corporation (LYAC) in Guizhou, Guiyang Province.

However, there are again reports that technology bottlenecks continue to dog this and other Chinese military engine designs, "such as engine blades warping during high-g manoeuvres and sometimes complete failures of the compressor section", according to a Western intelligence officer posted in Beijing. "Additionally, the lack of fluency with such aviation materials technologies as powder metallurgy are another shortcoming that holds back Chinese progress in propulsion development," he said.

It is reported recently that more than USD700 million was to be invested into LYAC, part of which is presumably to be used to enhance the technological proficiency of the enterprise.

The PAF officer also elaborated on the appearance this year of a model of a two-seat version of the JF-17, but then added: "This was not developed primarily for use in Pakistan. As part of our plan to enhance the technological skills in our air force we have made a commitment to conduct flight training for the JF-17 with some very sophisticated and high-definition simulators. The two-seat variant has primarily been developed in order to meet the training requirements of export customers."

The same officer stated that there are "several nations interested in the JF-17, but they have not yet placed any orders. This is largely due to the current turmoil in the Middle East that has acted as a brake on procurement plans in some countries, but we see this as only a temporary setback".

JDW
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
However, if there is to be a series-produced FC-1 variant that is operated by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) the "rigid security protocols in China will not permit them to operate the aircraft with a common [to the Pakistani aircraft] set of onboard systems," said a Chinese industry specialist with inside knowledge of the programme.

One major JF-17 subsystem that has long been the subject of a possible replacement is the Russian-made Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 jet engine: a modified version of Mikoyan's MiG-29 RD-33 power plant. Numerous stories over the years have discussed replacing this engine with the WS-13 engine produced by the Liyang Aeroengine Corporation (LYAC) in Guizhou, Guiyang Province.

However, there are again reports that technology bottlenecks continue to dog this and other Chinese military engine designs, "such as engine blades warping during high-g manoeuvres and sometimes complete failures of the compressor section", according to a Western intelligence officer posted in Beijing. "Additionally, the lack of fluency with such aviation materials technologies as powder metallurgy are another shortcoming that holds back Chinese progress in propulsion development," he said.


More realistically , PLAAF doesn't want any light fighters in the future . They are satisfied with medium/heavy combo , presently J-10/J-11 , and later J-31 (or similar)/J-20 . J-7s in current service will be gradually replaced with J-10s and possibly with UAVs .

Therefore , project WS-13 is on the back burner for now , first priority is WS-10 (A and B ) followed by WS-15 .
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Loved the part where the guy goes PAF don't need trainers lol simply because they don't need training they are too good

This is model 12-138 smoke issued was solved in 2010 all engines smoke depending on enviroment

Hope we see Block II soon I am sure it's ready to deploy but PAF is waiting to unveil it

Great climb rate and good turns, a elite JF-17 Thunder unit covered by IL-76 Midas tankers and ZDK-03 AWACS good match any IAF Sqaudron any time of the day

Hope to see JF-17 Wonder ah hem I mean Thunder at next Anatolia Eagle
 

Lion

Senior Member
More realistically , PLAAF doesn't want any light fighters in the future . They are satisfied with medium/heavy combo , presently J-10/J-11 , and later J-31 (or similar)/J-20 . J-7s in current service will be gradually replaced with J-10s and possibly with UAVs .

Therefore , project WS-13 is on the back burner for now , first priority is WS-10 (A and B ) followed by WS-15 .

With Lijian UCAV probably going to be endorsed by PLAAF and PLAN, WS-13 will materialise sooner and JF-17 may benefit from this with a Chinese engine in block 3.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
With Lijian UCAV probably going to be endorsed by PLAAF and PLAN, WS-13 will materialise sooner and JF-17 may benefit from this with a Chinese engine in block 3.

Correct me if I'm wrong , but Lijian currently uses WP7 engine without afterburner (it doesn't need it because it is subsonic ). Therefore , they may not need to develop complete WS-13 for this UCAV , only simplified version without afterburner will be sufficient .
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Correct me if I'm wrong , but Lijian currently uses WP7 engine without afterburner (it doesn't need it because it is subsonic ). Therefore , they may not need to develop complete WS-13 for this UCAV , only simplified version without afterburner will be sufficient .

The nozzle looks like RD-93, and Huitong is saying it is RD-93. I think only a few news sites are reporting it as WP-7, which is weird because an old turbojet is not only inefficient, but that particular model is not powerful enough to power a ucav of this size.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Next month a ceremony will be held in Pakistan to mark the delivery of the 50th JF-17 multirole fighter from the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) factory at Kamra. The handover marks the completion of production of the first batch of aircraft for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

50 Thunders would mean that there would soon be a 3rd Squadron standing up for Pakistan Air Force. Since the first two squadrons were the ones who operated the A-5C Fantans. I wonder which squadron would be next in line to become the
3rd JF-17 Thunder squadron? To the best of my knowledge, the oldest aircraft in Pakistan Air Force's fighter-fleet are the Mirage III's & V's. However, quite a few of these Mirages have been uprated and overhauled, using former Lebanese and Libyan Mirages as parts, spares and whole aircrafts refurbished into service.

So which unit would become the 3rd Thunder Squadron?

With the first batch completed, the Kamra factory is gearing up to begin Block 2 production, with a gap of a few weeks to reconfigure the assembly line to provide for the new version. Block 2 JF-17s differ by between 10 and 15 percent from Block 1 machines, with improvements implemented across much of the avionics suite. The most important difference is the addition of an air-to-air refueling capability.

From my understanding, the Black Spiders and Black Panthers were both dedicated Air-to-Ground attack/bomber squadrons. Which would lead me to believe that the SD-10 BVR missiles were not incorporated to those two squadrons initially? If so, would the third squadron of the first batch of 50 Thunders, have the SD-10 operational? Also, would the MAR-1 Anti-Radiation Missile be incorporated on the first two squadrons?

Block 2 will cover a further 50 aircraft and will complete the current firm orders from the PAF for 100 JF-17s. However, the eventual force requirement is considerably greater as the JF-17 replaces the F-5, F-7 and Mirage in PAF service. The factory is currently producing at a rate of 16 aircraft per year, but can increase to 25 if needed. All JF-17s are assembled in Pakistan, but China retains around 40 percent of the total workshare.

Last time I checked, Pakistan Air Force had a total requirement of around 300 Thunders. Given the economic turmoil left by the parasitic PPP-Govt lead by zardari. I doubt that the required number of aircraft would be achieved in the desired time frame, as stated by former ACM Tanveer Mehmood in Alan Warnes book (Pakistan Air Force: A New Dawn), which would have been by 2016. The statement had been made by the former ACM, back in 2006.
 
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