JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Zahid]

1. 3rd JF-17 squadron to be raised would likely be 14 Squadron (Tail Choppers) based at PAF Minhas at Kamra, which currently uses F-7P.

2. Tail Choppers have Attack & Air Defense duty and that means that the 3rd squadron of JF-17 would be ready and primed for Air to Air combat in addition to Attack. That does not conclusively mean that SD-10A is operational on JF-17, though.

3. For the first squadron of JF-17 block II, my guess would be 8th (Haiders) or 22nd (Ghazis) at PAF Masroor at Karachi. Those would be old Mirages with Sea/ Land Attack & Combat training duties respectively. This is just my guess, based on need to replace old Mirages and I can be wrong. It could also be 2nd squadron comprising of F7-Ps at PAF Masroor.

4. We would be better off with as many JF-17s as we can manage. I would rather see all Mirages, F-7P replaced by JF-17s. That would be around 200 aircraft.

 

[asif iqbal]

1. 3rd JF-17 squadron to be raised would likely be 14 Squadron (Tail Choppers) based at PAF Minhas at Kamra, which currently uses F-7P.

2. Tail Choppers have Attack & Air Defense duty and that means that the 3rd squadron of JF-17 would be ready and primed for Air to Air combat in addition to Attack. That does not conclusively mean that SD-10A is operational on JF-17, though.

3. For the first squadron of JF-17 block II, my guess would be 8th (Haiders) or 22nd (Ghazis) at PAF Masroor at Karachi. Those would be old Mirages with Sea/ Land Attack & Combat training duties respectively. This is just my guess, based on need to replace old Mirages and I can be wrong. It could also be 2nd squadron comprising of F7-Ps at PAF Masroor.

4. We would be better off with as many JF-17s as we can manage. I would rather see all Mirages, F-7P replaced by JF-17s. That would be around 200 aircraft.

The production rate is set by the retirement rate of older aircraft and those A5 were ready to go so that's why we seen a quick 50 units getting built

But I think you are right, Kamra will get the new JF-17 because they have been flying there for over 2 years now along with those F7 units issue is that PAF just doesn't want to retire these older aircraft I don't know what they see in these old aircraft

They will not retire Mirage for sure I can tell you that because MRF employs lots of people as of now and they have no mission to change over to the JF-17 conversion Upgrade Mirage are good and will soldier on if we look at the oldest F7 they will go first but again PAF just likes to hang in to these airframes they have a love affair with them!

Also Masroor is likely because recently anti-ship missiles have been carried from JF-17 and Pakistan too another delivery of them

The next 50 units so will likely go Kamra like you said also makes sense to have aerial refuelling capability on the East part of the country rather than the West as its the Eastern neighbour which is likely to attack and as such CAP misisons will be done on the Eastern air space requiring longer loiter times meaning air to air refuelling for Block II is good for Kamra Sqaudrons as they are the likely ones to be called into action from multiple fronts

 

[Dizasta1]

Now that is interesting indeed!

For the next 50 batch (ones which would have IFR capability), to go Masroor, makes sense. If they have 2 Squadrons for Masroor, it would allow Pakistan Air Force to deploy Tankers along with them. Giving the Thunders extended range and CAP time of it's area of operations.

However, one question does pop ..... knowing that the Thunders are destined for the Arabian Sea. It would only be logical to ask whether the RD-93 engines would be modified to cope with the maritime weather conditions? I ask this, since the units based near the Arabian Sea, have engines modified to withstand corrosion caused due to the coastline weather. I know that the F-7Ps at Masroor have modified WP-13s which are corrosion resistant.

 

[Deino]

 

[asif iqbal]

That's correct Deino but that is not new I posted this picture few months back of 13-143

 

[Deino]

That's correct Deino but that is not new I posted this picture few months back of 13-143

Sorry, then I simply missed it ! Anyway thanks a lot for Your constant update on that type & project.

Deino

 

[asif iqbal]

No problem and just for the sake for completeness and for those many who did say that JF17 was a cancelled project here is SP40, which means Serial Production unit 40 which is the 48th of the total because we have to include the Small Batch Production (SBP) units of which there was 8 from China so that’s photographic evidence of the 48Th JF17 Thunder

Also in the Kamra hanger where 13-143 was stationed the other JF17 have been identified as 13-144, 13-145, 13-146, 13-147 and 13-148 there was six aircraft in that picture

Few months after posting those pictures the Air Chief Marshall said that all 42 SP JF17 have been built and that re-configuration of the Kamra facilities are underway to enable production of Block II, now I know this may sound a bit odd but this is the first time Kamra built a world class fighter aircraft and it does take them time to gear up to build a new variant which is now in production for another 50 units

So in summary all 50 JF17 are now done and next 50 are in progress, if we think about it since 2009 to 2013 that’s 4 years we got 42 aircraft for $800 million no international deal would have given us this delivery, for that price we would only get 16-18 x F16 C/D Block 52+ and probably took double the time, and that’s true because those 18 F16s from USA took 9 years to arrive!

Another important thing to note is that 50 aircraft are equipping only two Squadron’s and not three No. 16 and No. 26, this means the JF17 Squadrons are much larger and even sometimes double the size of traditional PAF Squadron’s which shows there has been a change of strategy and tactics

Overall I am very happy with JF17 production and capability’s, we have Block II to look forward too and my guess is it will go to Naval Squadron for naval Strike missions further increasing the operating envelope for this aircraft

Ever since this project began people have said it’s never going to fly well it did and now operating in two very large Squadron’s well if that’s not progress and achievement I don’t know what it

And finally all this was only possible because of our long standing allies and friend China, Sino-Pak Allied forces brothers for Peace

 

[Dizasta1]

So in summary all 50 JF17 are now done and next 50 are in progress, if we think about it since 2009 to 2013 that’s 4 years we got 42 aircraft for $800 million no international deal would have given us this delivery, for that price we would only get 16-18 x F16 C/D Block 52+ and probably took double the time, and that’s true because those 18 F16s from USA took 9 years to arrive!

That is absolutely correct, Pakistan Air Force would've never got a deal for 50 Gen-4 Combat Aircraft, for the amount it paid. Since the Western aircraft are more expensive and very sanction prone.

What we have in JF-17 Thunders, is an amazing opportunity. As this aircraft progresses, there is an anticipation that PAC/CAC will hopefully incorporate gradual increase of composite material, an eventual AESA radar, more powerful and highly effective Electronic Warfare Suite and most definately, the addition of Ra'ad Cruise Missiles, SD-10 BVR Missiles and MAR-1 Anti-Radiation Missiles.

Another important thing to note is that 50 aircraft are equipping only two Squadron’s and not three No. 16 and No. 26, this means the JF17 Squadrons are much larger and even sometimes double the size of traditional PAF Squadron’s which shows there has been a change of strategy and tactics

Now that is an interesting point you've made there, Asif.

This would mean that an average Thunder-Squadron size would be 20 aircraft! If that is the case, then 12 squadrons to fill, would mean another 240 odd Thunders to be manufactured!!

 

[timepass]

we have Block II to look forward too and my guess is it will go to Naval Squadron for naval Strike missions further increasing the operating envelope for this aircraft

Yes I agree with you that next squadron is going to be based on PAF base Masroor in Karachi as a Naval Striker & will be in close coordination with ZDK 03 who are already based on Masroor.

Since Air-to-Air refueling would be there in block 2 hence we can hope that Ra'ad would be integrated also.

A perfect player for Naval duties.

 

[asif iqbal]

Heres a nice one, two Thunders, two Rafale and Typhoon at Dubai