JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
True to a point but they usually have radio contact additionally in cases such as those even if they could get a fighter to intercept its not like there is much they could do. and its not a everyday thing, when a passenger Jet is in a position to be intercepted.
As Steelbird pointed out there is very little resources for some of these nations. There markets are virtually none existent.
So some nations operate what I like to call Token Air Forces, these are maybe a single squadron of fighters that really only leave the ground for big events and spend most of there time just training in example Mexico. They have a single squadron of F5 fighters, thats it. most of there air operations? Helicopters and fixed wing transports, Of course in there case if they did need fighters Mexico has a asset NORAD. If the mexican government cant intercept its a safe bet the US can, and thanks to treaty the US is likely to.

Other nations have no other options In example Liberia, The poorest of African nations, this nations which has exceptionally close US ties. In fact some might Argue Liberia is the American Failed State It was created as a colony with the intention of sending Black Slaves back to Africa by the Jefferson Administration in 1822. Although Some of those Slaves would go there they quickly established a new slave nation taking locals as their slaves and reestablishing the same terrible process. A abject lesson In Irony? In the End Liberia would make even the most Impoverished of American Impoverished thank heaven they are not in Liberia. You might also remember a really nasty civil war staring any number of rather interesting Nome de Guerra as General Butt Naked, General Rambo, ecta... Its Air force? None. Not a single fighter. At its height it operated some used Fixed Wing Aircraft, During the Civil War Taylor's Forces are known to have operated one Helicopter. That's it. Why? Because they had no resources other than people and AK's.

Lesson In order to get a new Fighter a nation must have something it can sell. and in the case of Russia and China They will not take Barter, They want Ca$h. Dollar Dollar bill y'all...
that limits some buyers it also means that nations who just cant afford to do anything else but watch their existing once proud Air forces rot are going to have a hard time both laying down the money and maintaining the new fighters. Unlike Battlefield Earth if you leave a complex machine like a Harrier sitting for any extended amount of time you can't just suddenly brush off the dust, fill the tank and hope they fly. that further limits options. for Cambodia and nations who live at that level of development that turns once great fighters into expensive lawn ornaments.

in order to meet the needs to actually buy and maintain JF17 a nation needs a reliable economic model even if that model is only producing a comparative trickle of income. that model needs to be able to allow for the costs of fuel, training, Maintenance, Upgrades and arming thats a few million a flight hour. a Sam by contrast is fairly easy all it costs is some one trained to operate, maintain and fuel thats a few thousand a week. some thing like a super tucano runs a few thousand a flight hour same for a basic chopper like a Hind.
 

mr.bean

Junior Member
that would be true if and only if you have access to the kind of scale USAF has.

to pay a maintenance support crew, per hour rate + per-diem, especially from western countries to come over is expensive.

with out foreign military sales support from US (i.e. a check from US congress) to foot the bills the refurb is prohibitively expensive.

alot of US companies are making a killing at servicing these used f-16 fleets ,that are other wise unaffordable with out FMS support.

from what I saw in tv reports from Taiwan. they say the F-16 is probably the cheapest western fighter plane to maintain of all the current front line fighter planes used in the western countries plus non western pro US allies. but of course that's still too expensive for most developing countries. in Taiwan their mirage fleet is most expensive to operate/maintain, then in middle is F-16, and the cheapest is their domestically produced F-ck1.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
As a fighter or any complex machine for that matter ages it gets harder to find spar parts. If however the production line never closes then spare parts is not a issue. F16 still has a active production line. So spares are easy compared to the Mirage who's line closed some time back the FCK, has a.open line and its even easier for them as the parts are in country.
 

mr.bean

Junior Member
Lets start ripping up that list.
Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Laos, Cambodia, Burma ... hell if Dr Habibi of Indonesia
Bangladesh and Burma both use have mig 29.
Indonesia uses F16
Sri Lanka is a possibility but the also have been know to want migs
that leaves Cambodia and Laos
I'll let steelbird speak for Cambodia
Laos is maybe.

on that list my picks for the Jf-17 would be Bangladesh and Sri Lanka both very likely.
Indonesia would be a perfect country for the plane but they already have F-16 and Su-30
Laos and Cambodia are too small and poor. we always think Jf-17 is perfect plane for nations that operate the Mig 21, F-5 yes but those countries don't have the funds to upgrade. a Jf-17 still in the neighbourhood of us$20 million.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
from what I saw in tv reports from Taiwan. they say the F-16 is probably the cheapest western fighter plane to maintain of all the current front line fighter planes used in the western countries plus non western pro US allies. but of course that's still too expensive for most developing countries. in Taiwan their mirage fleet is most expensive to operate/maintain, then in middle is F-16, and the cheapest is their domestically produced F-ck1.

tahts' right Mirage 2000 is the most expensive for taiwan. F-CK1 is cheapest because it's 1) smaller fighter 2) more items are sourced in taiwan.

french parts are notoriously expensive.

for a airforce size of ROCAF, a single multi-role fast jet type is good enough.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
You still need something to control your air space in peace time . You cannot simply fire SAM at passenger jet that lost its course or has malfunctioning radio . On the other hand , you cannot successfully intercept fast and high-flying jet with light attack aircraft . Poor countries mostly used (and are still using) Mig-21 and its derivations in this role . But those old clunkers are at end of their useful life (even with all life-extending programs) . Therefore , you will need something to replace them - either with used fourth gen fighters or with new purposely built cheap fighters like JF-17 . Scorpion IMHO is too slow to be successful in this role .

Your last point proves my point. Scorpion is, in fact, quite pointless in fighter role.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
tahts' right Mirage 2000 is the most expensive for taiwan. F-CK1 is cheapest because it's 1) smaller fighter 2) more items are sourced in taiwan.
french parts are notoriously expensive.
for a airforce size of ROCAF, a single multi-role fast jet type is good enough.

Taiwan is said to have paid twice the market price for the Mirage jets. This may or may not include "grease payments". The case is currently under investigation.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Taiwan is said to have paid twice the market price for the Mirage jets. This may or may not include "grease payments". The case is currently under investigation.

Don't forget that the air to ground capabilities were also neutered. Just not a very good idea... At least the French were willing to sell.
 

Zahid

Junior Member
Dubai air show: less than a week left. I can not wait to see JF-17 / FC-1 in action again. But I do hope that camera work is better this time.

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Islamabad: JF-17 Thunder, the Pakistan’s pride alongwith Mushshak aircraft would be participating in the forthcoming Dubai Air Show from 17-21 November, 2013. The JF-17 Thunder’s Squadron pilots have completed series of aerobatics training drill program and are fully prepared to steal the show on the eve of 10th Dubai Air Show, 2013. The multi role all weather JF-17 Thunder is a highly maneuverable light combat aircraft with fly by wire flight controls. The aircraft is equipped with state-of-the art avionics and mix of modern weapon to destroy targets in air, on ground and also in the sea.
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Zahid

Junior Member
Alan Warnes (@warnesyworld on twitter) posted the following tweets a few hours ago from Dubai.


Alan Warnes ‏@warnesyworld 4h
JF-17 ground display boasted a new big Chinese anti-shipping missile.

Alan Warnes ‏@warnesyworld 5h
Both JF-17 displays were superb. Lots of turns, a slow fly by and plenty of vapour over wings. Nice one. PAF CAS is here tomorrow.

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The anti-shipping missile referred to above is CM-400

Is any of the forum members in Dubai?

Where is munir when you need him?
 
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