JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[MastanKhan]

My point is,you need to fight with tough guy to prove your ability.And Lybia? My god,except bombing some AK-47 guys,what Rafale gonna to do there? F-16 is proved to be a good fighter in Iseral/Syria war and the desert storm operation,comparing that Rafael bombing something in Lybia desert is like to be a joke.

Hi,

What a poor example---israel / syria---. Similarly---whic country has the u s fought to prove its provess---iraq ( laughable ) afghanistan ( SHOULD HIDE IN SHAME )---. Libya had possibly better air defence than syria---and the rafale performed very good---much better than some other aircrafts----. Gave it a new life with orer from indian air force---.

 

[clone7803]

Hi,

What a poor example---israel / syria---. Similarly---whic country has the u s fought to prove its provess---iraq ( laughable ) afghanistan ( SHOULD HIDE IN SHAME )---. Libya had possibly better air defence than syria---and the rafale performed very good---much better than some other aircrafts----. Gave it a new life with orer from indian air force---.

Lol,you must live in a different world which I have no idea what you are talking about. The Israel /Syria war here ,partically from 6

Jun to 11 Jun 1982,the Isarel air force fought a massive air to air combat with the Syria air force.More than 150 mordern jets

joint the party,the Israel F-15 and F-16 shot down 85 Syria Migs without any loose.It was the first time that the Israel air force

showed to the pepole that how to effectivelly use the 4th generation fighters and how important the electro-warefare is in

a mordern air combat.Remember ,the Syria air force was,and is a top air force in the middle east,especially in the 1980s when it

was a major USSR ally.At its peak,the Syria air force had 42 Mig-29,11 Mig25,106 Mig23,176 Mig21,20 Su24 and 60 Su-22.No

one doubt that it's a decent air force even with today's standard.

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As for the Iraq air force in the 1990s before the desert storm, should I say more? It might be the most powerfull air force in the

middle east. The Libya air force was never a top player with any standard. When the French sent their Rafele, Gadaffi was kicked

out from power and Libya as a whole was borken into pieces.

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[Munir]

I find it funny that people still think that Israeli pilots are super humans. The USA provided unlimited planes, technology, fuel, weapons, training and information about their adversary. The Syrians got not the best versions and all other things were a lot more less then their opponents had. You still think that it was a fair fight? To show you what a fair fight was then go search how Pakistani pilots did serve in far worser situation in the wars of Israel... I think you will understand that I do not comply with your long and biassed statement...

I think that the situation is that they have nice weapons and good financed airforce. But I am pretty sure they are not Gods. It reminds me of the Merkava. So many people think it is the greatest tank in the world. The Israeli would be the best in designing tanks. Surely they do nice against stones of Palestinians but against a well trained force like Hizbullah they were not that good... I hope we stop thinking that there are super humans. Fighting against crippled adversary does not mean you are that good but that you are fighting unfair.

 

[hardware]

Lol,you must live in a different world which I have no idea what you are talking about. The Israel /Syria war here ,partically from 6

Jun to 11 Jun 1982,the Isarel air force fought a massive air to air combat with the Syria air force.More than 150 mordern jets

joint the party,the Israel F-15 and F-16 shot down 85 Syria Migs without any loose.It was the first time that the Israel air force

showed to the pepole that how to effectivelly use the 4th generation fighters and how important the electro-warefare is in

a mordern air combat.Remember ,the Syria air force was,and is a top air force in the middle east,especially in the 1980s when it

was a major USSR ally.At its peak,the Syria air force had 42 Mig-29,11 Mig25,106 Mig23,176 Mig21,20 Su24 and 60 Su-22.No

one doubt that it's a decent air force even with today's standard.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As for the Iraq air force in the 1990s before the desert storm, should I say more? It might be the most powerfull air force in the

middle east. The Libya air force was never a top player with any standard. When the French sent their Rafele, Gadaffi was kicked

out from power and Libya as a whole was borken into pieces.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

combat carmera obtain by the USAF,l surprise amd shock that the nearly all combat footage ,the syrian pilots did not even bother to take evasive action.they just fly in straight line and let IAF blast them away like the marianas turkey shot.
again during the libyan-US confrontation in mediterannian.USN pilot notice, libyan pilots flying mirage F-1 show better skill than the pilot flying the MIG or sukhoi.
what happen in above the bekaa valley was not jut the failure of soviet technology bult also the shortcoming of soviet pilot training.

 

[jobjed]

fighting unfair.

I'm sorry, you're in the wrong century for chivalry.

 

[Lion]

combat carmera obtain by the USAF,l surprise amd shock that the nearly all combat footage ,the syrian pilots did not even bother to take evasive action.they just fly in straight line and let IAF blast them away like the marianas turkey shot.
again during the libyan-US confrontation in mediterannian.USN pilot notice, libyan pilots flying mirage F-1 show better skill than the pilot flying the MIG or sukhoi.
what happen in above the bekaa valley was not jut the failure of soviet technology bult also the shortcoming of soviet pilot training.

I dont think soviet training is bad but probably the student recruited that time were lousy.. The north vietnamese pilot learn from soviet and i think they do a very good job aginst the mighty UASF during that time.

 

[asif iqbal]

problem with Soviet doctrine is that it only works for Soviets in Soviet Union

buying small number of fighters using small part of thier training will not yield any result, added to that the utter incomptance of the Arab airforces you can see where this is going to end up

some silly Arab pilots would try and dive away at 2,000 ft and just hit the desert floor, to say they were well trained is a gross over statment

so it was the combination of poor training added to poor tatics, Vietnam was better pilots with relatively better tatics same for Korean War

 

[Munir]

Asif made a very good post. The selection in the arab world is very different from others. It is not that the best available get the education but the titles... I mean I got to fly the JF17 sim for some time and a Mirage 2000 driver from a certain arab nation (very easy to guess) wanted to do the same after me. He did get his chance but o boy how he acted. Arrogant and asking some very stupid questions. I have it taped cause I could not believe my eyes...

And indeed Soviet doctrine is nice or them. You cannot fly that against Israel in a much smaller size airforce. Even the aircrafts are optimized for certain nations. I mean Saudia buys planes that were for very cold and humid long range air intercept... They fly them in a total different scenario. They probably do not care.

That explains why JF17 is perfectly suited for Pakistan and probably not for China. Not even in small numbers. Pakistan has an huge border direct to its opponent. Lots of WVR and BVR fights but a small plane....

 

[rhino123]

combat carmera obtain by the USAF,l surprise amd shock that the nearly all combat footage ,the syrian pilots did not even bother to take evasive action.they just fly in straight line and let IAF blast them away like the marianas turkey shot.
again during the libyan-US confrontation in mediterannian.USN pilot notice, libyan pilots flying mirage F-1 show better skill than the pilot flying the MIG or sukhoi.
what happen in above the bekaa valley was not jut the failure of soviet technology bult also the shortcoming of soviet pilot training.

Well... it is not the Soviet training that is bad. It is the student.

Remember MiG Valley in during Korean War? 30 MiG-15 attacked 3 squadron of B-29 with around 1 hundred F-80 and F-84 fighter escort. The Americans loses 12 B-29 with no lost for the Soviet side and that is only one example.

 

[hardware]

Well... it is not the Soviet training that is bad. It is the student.

Remember MiG Valley in during Korean War? 30 MiG-15 attacked 3 squadron of B-29 with around 1 hundred F-80 and F-84 fighter escort. The Americans loses 12 B-29 with no lost for the Soviet side and that is only one example.

a lot of soviet "volunteers" are all ww-2 combat veteran.
after debacle in 69's against israel AF,soviet decided to have ther own "top Gun" advance fighter trianing, but soviet refuse to allow there client state such as syria or iraq to participate in the program.main reason may be security,the soviet simple do not thrust them.
except iraq, after saddam complain about the quality of the soviet jet,which large number of iraq Mig are being shoot down like fly by US (or israel) trained iranian pilots.did the soviet cave in,allowing the iraqi pilot to train soviet top Gun facility in kazaksthan.