JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Lion]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Can any of you gentlemen shed any light/share information regarding future stealth capabilities or plans of JF-17/Pakistan?
Because in my opinion next conventional war would be based on PAK-FA acquisition of INDIA. Anybody remember that right after the 1998 testings, Indians started to threat Pakistan openly. This is what I believe India would do as soon as they would have couple of squadrons of PAK-FA. The future wars would be more depending upon Air Superiority as compare to the past wars, and I think PAF (as much as I love them) is falling way behind. Any thoughts including defending against PAK-FA and MKIs.

I fear with the induction of PAK-FA into IAF our strategic assets would be very vulnerable. Every other country (likes of Turkey etc) is very actively pursuing stealth combat air crafts program. We need to have a genuine stealth capability manufactured indigenously.
Hopefully I am not violating any forum rules by asking this question.

Thanks

You seriuously think PAK-FA will succeed? PAFKA in my opinion is just a 4.5 gen fighter with internal weapon bay. Unless Russian launch a second prototype with radICal shaping from the 1st one. I never believe its a threat....

 

[kwaigonegin]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Can any of you gentlemen shed any light/share information regarding future stealth capabilities or plans of JF-17/Pakistan?
Because in my opinion next conventional war would be based on PAK-FA acquisition of INDIA. Anybody remember that right after the 1998 testings, Indians started to threat Pakistan openly. This is what I believe India would do as soon as they would have couple of squadrons of PAK-FA. The future wars would be more depending upon Air Superiority as compare to the past wars, and I think PAF (as much as I love them) is falling way behind. Any thoughts including defending against PAK-FA and MKIs.

I fear with the induction of PAK-FA into IAF our strategic assets would be very vulnerable. Every other country (likes of Turkey etc) is very actively pursuing stealth combat air crafts program. We need to have a genuine stealth capability manufactured indigenously.
Hopefully I am not violating any forum rules by asking this question.

Thanks

Are you a troll? because the folks here can smell one from a few parsecs away. It seems like you're hell bent on trying to start some India/Pakistan crap.
Unless it's an actual event or you have some top secret info on an Indian military operation against Pakistan to state that India will go to war once they have a couple of squadrons of PAKFA is not only ridiculous but borderline insane. Countries with nukes don't just start wars because they have acquired a couple dozen of new fighters. Either way PAK-FA (assuming it makes into serial production) won't be flying in Indian colors in any major numbers for at least 10 years if not more.
Right now IAF is knee deep into their MRCA acquisition and probably won;t be spending too much effort on everything else.

 

[farooqi]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Are you a troll? because the folks here can smell one from a few parsecs away. It seems like you're hell bent on trying to start some India/Pakistan crap.
Unless it's an actual event or you have some top secret info on an Indian military operation against Pakistan to state that India will go to war once they have a couple of squadrons of PAKFA is not only ridiculous but borderline insane. Countries with nukes don't just start wars because they have acquired a couple dozen of new fighters. Either way PAK-FA (assuming it makes into serial production) won't be flying in Indian colors in any major numbers for at least 10 years if not more.
Right now IAF is knee deep into their MRCA acquisition and probably won;t be spending too much effort on everything else.

I think I accidently pinched some exposed nerves. I asked a question about JFT stealth or Pakistan future stealth program. And gave away my thoughts. I have already stated that I hope I am not violating any forum rules. I thought I was asking a simple question technology wise,and I am being accused of trolling.

As far as PAK-FA is concern I got 2 answers so far. Both of these answers seems too complacent to me. Think deep that what is going on around especially around Pakistan. Yes countries with Nukes may not just go out and start a war. Bust USA did and so did USSR, and no I do not have top secret Indian information, but I do have common sense to see where all this military built up will lead us to. Pakistan having nuclear capability is not being digested around the world, other then OIC countries and CHINA. And saying that PAK-FA is going to take 10 years is just simple complacency. I did not get an answer to my humble question. May be someone else would see my point and provide me some information.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I think I accidently pinched some exposed nerves. I asked a question about JFT stealth or Pakistan future stealth program. And gave away my thoughts. I have already stated that I hope I am not violating any forum rules. I thought I was asking a simple question technology wise,and I am being accused of trolling.

As far as PAK-FA is concern I got 2 answers so far. Both of these answers seems too complacent to me. Think deep that what is going on around especially around Pakistan. Yes countries with Nukes may not just go out and start a war. Bust USA did and so did USSR, and no I do not have top secret Indian information, but I do have common sense to see where all this military built up will lead us to. Pakistan having nuclear capability is not being digested around the world, other then OIC countries and CHINA. And saying that PAK-FA is going to take 10 years is just simple complacency. I did not get an answer to my humble question. May be someone else would see my point and provide me some information.

If all you wanted was an answer to your question then it's best you just state your question and leave it at that. There is no need to go into ramblings and speculations about Indian aggression and future wars etc. Those kind of red meat rhetorics will no doubt bait some into a long heated political discussion and ultimately cause some mod to ban members or close down the thread.

As to your question I sincerely doubt there will be a stealth version of the JF-17. Far from being a aerodynamic expert but just looking at the basic design tells me it would be quite impossible to make it stealth. At best it may get a quieter smokeless turbofan, conformal fuel tanks in the future and more advanced avionics upgrade but fuselage redesign is almost impossible.

 

[escobar]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

You seriuously think PAK-FA will succeed? PAFKA in my opinion is just a 4.5 gen fighter with internal weapon bay. Unless Russian launch a second prototype with radICal shaping from the 1st one. I never believe its a threat....

You better not say things like that.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

can someone translate the article about the Block II? even highlights would be enough

 

[escobar]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

 

[plawolf]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

can someone translate the article about the Block II? even highlights would be enough

Kanwa had an interview with General Javaid Ahmed, during which he stated that:
- In 2012, they will be bring out the JF17 Blk 2. The main improvements are the addition of IRF, the development of a twin seat version, adding datalink and development of an export version JF17.
- PAF is pretty happy with the performance of the KJL7, so no immediate plans to switch to AESA (KJL7 specs: detection range for fighter sized target 130km; can track 16 targets and engage 2 at the same time; have SAR mapping capability)
- The Chinese indigenous engine is currently undergoing flight testing and may be a while before it is fitted to a JF17
- In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons.
- 36 blk 1 JF17s have been delivered so far. Something of note is that all Blk1 JF17s do not have datalinks, and they rely principally on verbal communication to share data with off board sensors or each other.

That is basically a rundown of the article's main points. I just left out some of Kanwan's speculations here and there.

The last part is very interesting, and it could be an indication that the PAF is not willing to have two separate datalink networks of JF17+KJ200P (it's actually the ZDK-03, but even that much basic knowledge seems to be beyond Kanwan) and another one with Eyrie+F16s, and the new datalinks to be installed in the Blk2 aircraft may solve this problem.

If they were willing to tolerate the two datalink situation, then there would be no reason for the Blk1 JF17s to not have datalinks.

My guess is that Pakistan made some of the Link16s that they got from the US available to Chinese engineers, who were able to develop some kind of workaround that allows JF17s to datalink with the ZDK-03 and Link16 equipped planes. This new datalink is only just becoming available, which is why the Blk1 JF17s don't have datalinks at present.

That may have been one of the promises that persuaded the PAF to go for the ZDK-03 in the first place, or may have been part of the deal to get China to release the ZDK-03 depending on which way you want to look at this. Either way, if my guess is true, then this would represent a massive breakthrough for both the PAF and PLAAF.

The PAF gets Chinese datalinks on the ZDK-03 and JF17s that are compatible with Link16s so everyone can share data with everyone else, and China was able to get a good long look at the Link16 and got to know it to the point where they can develop datalinks that can sync and network with Link16. That is critical information if you want to develop technology to jam or even hack Link16.

But, I may be getting a little too far ahead of myself. We best wait for more information on the nature and capabilities of the JF17 Blk2 datalinks before we make any sort of claims. What I wrote above is just speculation at this point.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Thanks Plawolf!

so its most likely confirmed that there is no ASEA for Block II, this is not suprising as Kamra has just set up production of the KJL7 radar, they assemble them now there too, this was after a Western radar was evaluated and it was decided that KJL-7 is more than capable than its Western counterparts

so this leaves Mid-air refueling and datalink upgrades for Block II with WS13 also out of the equation

but for Link16 this is suprising, as far as I know Pakistan seperated the F16s and JF17, split half and half, the packages were Erieye, F16s and buying KC-130 tankers from US and ZDK-03, JF17 and IL-78 Midas

it does make sense to have communication between F16 and JF17 pilots but i thought this was solved using ground based system and not a direct link between the two

and I think the reason why Block I did not have datalink is because it was rushed into service ASAP and not to do with China working around Link16, because Pakistan got 30 refueling pods from South Africa in 2009 to equip Mirage III Rose I and the IL-78 started arriving in 2010 and the first PAC built sqaudron didnt go operational until first half of 2010, so technically speaking we could have had refueling for JF17 on the Block I, but then question is were PAF pilots trained?? I think yes because they trained refueling with USAF, but then if now indeed this new is true about JF17 and F16 communication you maybe right

it has been a long standing issue over how JF17 pilots would communicate with F16 pilots, in time of war you cant always rely on a ground station to relay the information so a direct link is important, this could be where Block II aircraft become very versatile and has thrown in a suprise there for us, however it remains to be seen wether this is just fighter to fighter communication or fighter to AWACS, like for example F16 with ZDK-03?? which is a bit of a push and i think unlikely

the final part where it says thet 36 have been built is probably correct, because AFM showed a picture of SP-29 in May issue even although the JF17 at Dubai airshow was 33!!!

this means Kamra will have built all 50 JF17 in 2012, we around a dozen JF17 still to make at Kamra for the remaining of the year which is very doable

 

[MastanKhan]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Can any of you gentlemen shed any light/share information regarding future stealth capabilities or plans of JF-17/Pakistan?
Because in my opinion next conventional war would be based on PAK-FA acquisition of INDIA. Anybody remember that right after the 1998 testings, Indians started to threat Pakistan openly. This is what I believe India would do as soon as they would have couple of squadrons of PAK-FA. The future wars would be more depending upon Air Superiority as compare to the past wars, and I think PAF (as much as I love them) is falling way behind. Any thoughts including defending against PAK-FA and MKIs.

I fear with the induction of PAK-FA into IAF our strategic assets would be very vulnerable. Every other country (likes of Turkey etc) is very actively pursuing stealth combat air crafts program. We need to have a genuine stealth capability manufactured indigenously.
Hopefully I am not violating any forum rules by asking this question.

Thanks

Hi,

Where comes the 'trolling' in this post---it is a strategic and technical question that the poster is asking.

The u s has blamed pakistan many a times---that the moment it gets new shiny u s weapons --- it is thinking of attacking india. And when india finds out that it is in a superior position---they start acting up as well.

I would recommend the gentleman answering this post to look a little deeper into this issue between pak / india before declaring it a 'troll'. Thank you.