JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Jazz707]

Didn't Qatar just order 24 Rafales?
That's already quite an expansion for them from their current fleet of 13 M2Ks, so while JF17s might make a nice hi-lo combo with Rafales in a larger air force, is Qatar really looking to make such a massive expansion of its air force compared to its current size?

Apparently so, with it seems a lot more credible, continuing reports on their request for 73 F-15E's as part of their expansion. These reports could be worth more than any JF-17 display? Time will tell.
Maybe as mentioned, it is a necessity to build a much stronger defence force, in cooperation with their allies. Needing to 'dumb down' with a hi-lo mix is questionable though, when they can 'hi-hi' as all their neighbours have (or are planning to do).

 

[Zahid]

HH Emir of Qatar inspecting JF-17
Again via @MuddyKan (twitter)

Pakistan is looked at as a bulwark by GCC. This need not to be said as such, being evident to anyone with even cursory knowledge of Pakistan's relations with GCC.

The recent lucrative deal with Qatar for LNG is actually a manifestation of this fact in practice. It has a strategic dimension beyond GCC.

Where does JF-17 fit in this? Its too early to say as of now. But negative perceptions are certainly unwarranted.

 

[plawolf]

Given the long history of PAF pilots training and even directly flying combat jets for Gulf states, it would make sense for the Gulf States to operate fighter types that PAF pilots already fly and are fully qualified on, which will cut down on training time/costs while also yield better combat effectiveness.

Planes are only as good as the pilots that fly them after all.

If Qatar is really looking to increase the size of their fighter force to several times its current strength, unless they want to use those jets as expensive paper weights for a few years, hiring PAF pilots to fly them seems like the best, and only, viable short to medium term solution.

But that's only an option if they choose a jet PAF has experience operating already, or else it involves a long period of integration training, which may not be desirable given the political and diplomatic situation in the region, and may not be acceptable to the PAF.

Fighter type familiarity are a perishable skill after all, for PAF pilots to convert to a new fighter type (that the PAF don't operate) would mean those pilots will clock fewer or no hours for months or even years at time on the types the PAF does fly, which will degrade their operational efficiency in the event Pakistan needs those pilots back in a hurry (and we are assuming Qatar would not be cool with the PAF pilots taking their new fighters back to Pakistan with them).

So JF17 would make a certain degree of sense, in that Qatar could acquire an operationally deployable fighter force several times the size of its current fleet in a very short period of time. Pakistan secures a major order, and also pretty much have the training costs for dozens of pilots covered for the length of the loan to Qatar, and not only would those pilots not loose any of their edge, they may come back better than ever since Qatar could probably easily afford more flying hours for them than the PAF average.

In the event Qatar actually needs to use its newly acquired air power in combat, that will also provide the PAF pilots with real world combat experience, as well as give the JF17 design team invaluable feedback from combat use to help them refine and improve the design and future projects.

 

[Domino]

JF-17 slow speed Pass

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[Zahid]

JF-17 slow speed Pass

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HAhaha... @MuddyKan is the most popular and contributing guy at this time on this thread. Somebody tell him.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pak pilots in qatar or emirates are for those countries. Paf does not depend on those pilots.

Here is what it seems like---with the induction of a 4.5 gen aircraft---and the cost of operating and maintaining that aicraft being so high---there is a possibility that a BLK3 JF17 with aesa is being considered to fill in a 4th gen aircraft hole----.

This aircraft will also be used to mainatin the flying hours of the pilots to keep the sharp and active---because it would be tough and very expensive to fly the 4.5 gen aircraft for 220 hours plus a year---.

 

[MastanKhan]

So what happened at the Dubai and Bahrain Airshows? The billed and highly anticipated JF-17's failed to show! Maybe there's a good excuse why they didn't "always show"??

Hi,

I will answer the question one more time----. First of all paf does not go to Bahrain air shows---. It goes to Dubai---Bahrain is not a defence industry show but rather commercial airlines show.

With already two orders signed and 66 aircraft in active flight / deployment status---a sqdrn deployed at combat commander's school---similar to the topgun----paf is no in hurry to spend money to just go to a show to attract customers---or to show off against another aircraft---it already has done the footwork.

The customers are already in the bag---so why to spend a million useless dollars for display fees and another 1/2 million dollars transportation costs for the show + insurance costs for flight---when the nations are inviting the aircraft to display and perform for free.

Actually---there are 3 orders signed for the JF 17---the 3rd order is for paf for 50 BLK 3 JF17's----.

So---Tejas will have to wait to compete----it will have to wait its turn------

 

[Jazz707]

OK, so the best answer why the JF-17 didn't appear at the Bahrain Airshow is... "paf does not go to Bahrain air shows". Well, it hasn't yet thats true, but maybe that will change as the show grows (and will now alternate with Dubai from November 2018)? As we are now well into February and most interest has gone, i don't expect we will find a more reasoned explanation now, beyond the fanboy responses on here. It was quite fun though, reading some of the banter on the other forums, while it lasted. Maybe it was all hype by the show organisers then, to show diagrams of JF-17 parking spots next to the Tejas, or maybe the PAF did really mean to attend but then changed their mind? Who knows... and really by now who cares?

BTW, i couldn't agree more on the waste of money taking the JF-17 to shows. So, no more Dubai, Paris or Farnborough etc you think? Was the cost of taking the aircraft to Qatar really totally free? Similar to your very good point, it was great to see and talk with the PAF guys at the Bucharest show last year, when an IL-78MP brought in two Super Mushshaks for display. I had to wonder though, what must that cost, and at the end of the day, how much was made? Go figure

 

[Blackstone]

There are so many JF-17 export stories it's hard to know what is real and what's not. So, until there are unadulterated images of them in exported countries' air forces, I don't believe any export claims.

 

[MastanKhan]

OK, so the best answer why the JF-17 didn't appear at the Bahrain Airshow is... "paf does not go to Bahrain air shows". Well, it hasn't yet thats true, but maybe that will change as the show grows (and will now alternate with Dubai from November 2018)? As we are now well into February and most interest has gone, i don't expect we will find a more reasoned explanation now, beyond the fanboy responses on here. It was quite fun though, reading some of the banter on the other forums, while it lasted. Maybe it was all hype by the show organisers then, to show diagrams of JF-17 parking spots next to the Tejas, or maybe the PAF did really mean to attend but then changed their mind? Who knows... and really by now who cares?

BTW, i couldn't agree more on the waste of money taking the JF-17 to shows. So, no more Dubai, Paris or Farnborough etc you think? Was the cost of taking the aircraft to Qatar really totally free? Similar to your very good point, it was great to see and talk with the PAF guys at the Bucharest show last year, when an IL-78MP brought in two Super Mushshaks for display. I had to wonder though, what must that cost, and at the end of the day, how much was made? Go figure

Hi,

Going to Qatar was at the request of the Emir---there was no cost involved in it except for the travel.

Otherwise---a show requires space fee----flight display insurance---travel expenses.

Bahrain created the hype itself to force the JF17 into the show---but it did not work and Bahrain in itself is not interested in the aircraft---so what would be the reason to go to a civilian airliner show---like in april---I believe the paf will take the JF17 to morocco---supposedly they are interested in the aircraft for their air force.