JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
hahaha .... a very intelligently asked naive question ....

3- Now addressing to your 'specific query': UAE & France used F-16 blk 60 & Rafale Jets in Libya respectively, F-22 is used in Syria, Saudis are using their F-15 & Euro Fighters in Yemen so my dear do you have sources indicating "publications of actual combat usage and performance against militants" No.... ??

............................................................. more pics in the following post
Actually, we do have both military announcements and videos, as well as press announcements and pictures of the F-22 combat in Syria. Saudis have re4leased pictures and info about their F-15s, and I am pretty sure the French have released data on the use of their Rafales as well.

Having said that...I REALLY appreciate all of the GREAT pics of the JF-17 you have shown in those posts. Great stuff!

jf-17-dual-general-purpose-bomb1-jpg.15158


jf-17-dual-general-purpose-bomb4-jpg.15162
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Interesting statement from a Gripen developer about the JF-17:
As a former fighter pilot and developer of fighters (the Gripen), I discussed the Chinese-Pakistani JF17 Thunder at length with the pilots that flew the demonstrations. I was surprised by how good the aircraft flew and the level of its systems. They are not far behind the fourth generations fighters that the West has.

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25 June 2015, © Leeham Co: With a few days in the office one can look back at Paris Air Show with a bit of perspective. So what are the impressions?

It was surprising how many orders Airbus and Boeing landed. Both had played down the expectations, telling that it will be a decent show but nothing close to record. Yet both were booking orders or commitments which were better than expected going into the PAS.

For both, the single aisle market is still the motor. The need for single aisle 150 to 200+ seat aircraft seems to be inexhaustible. At the same time, Bombardier, which has fine aircraft just below this size, did not book a single order for the CSeries, despite showing and flying them at Paris Air Show for the first time. BBD went to pains in advance of the Air Show to indicate no orders were expected in the wake of executive management changes in the weeks and few months before the PAS. Nonetheless, barriers to entry into new market segments are really high in this business.

This will also bear on Russian and Chinese projects. Russia and Italy had just started to get really good references for their Superjet. Then the Russian leadership decided that political gamesmanship is more important than to build on the inroads they have made over the last 10 years for integration of their countries companies with the business in the western world.

I passed the Russian stands for United Aircraft in Hall 2. It was sad to see that there were qualified people standing there waiting for interested customers. But there were none; the stands were empty. In one year, what was built up during 10 years was destroyed, things have gone cold. Really sad. Russian aeronautical and aerospace industry has a lot of knowledge and tradition that could quickly lead them to being a viable alternative to western technology. Now they hand that alternative choice on a plate to China.

The Russians I have talked to during the years would love to be given a chance to come back and show what they can achieve on an open aeronautical market. The market is there and booming, but their political leadership has made sure they miss this chance of a century.

The Chinese aeronautical industry was less present. It seems to be building strength on a large home market before entering the world scene. China and Russia have agreed to make a new twin aisle aircraft together with, as I understand it, around 250-300 seats, competing with Boeing’s Dreamliner and Airbus’ A330neo. Request for information is out and request for bids to participate will be issued and awarded during 2015.

It is the only new twin aisle aircraft on the horizon. All other projects, and they are only two, 777X and A330neo, are further developments of old platforms. The finishing on the 787-10 and A350-1000 developments are going on but these projects are in their last years of development. New engines, systems and avionics have only the Russian-Chinese project to aim for after the derivatives are done.

It will be especially interesting on the engine front. The only new engine in development which seems to have the right characteristics is Rolls-Royce Advance. GE has several times declared they are full with projects and are not aiming for any new ones and Pratt & Whitney have declared they better finish up what they have as projects already before venturing on anything new.

This leaves Rolls-Royce of the western engine makers. There will for sure also be a Russian alternative but the question is how serious will that be, when cooperation with Western technology companies has become difficult due to politics. Russia lacks manufacturing means for the advanced materials and techniques required for a modern engine. They might have the technology on a research scale in many corners, but the Sam146 project with Snecma shows that the Russian partner struggles to ramp the production due to lack of advanced machines for the production of their part of the engine.

I can’t think things have improved for a cooperation or sale of technology to Russia given the last year’s tension and increased uncertainties . Does a company do all the up front efforts to then see the production contracts being stopped due to sanctions or other problems?

World peace can only come one way, that the world’s economies get so integrated that any conflict means huge negatives for the party that wants to play hard-ball for political gains. We never got there with Russia before things turned south. Let’s hope that this changes and that we get so integrated with the Chinese so that we don’t have to see empty stands in their expositions in future Air Shows.

The chances are good that we will reach a high level of integration before the military might of China has reached levels where the incitement to flex those muscles becomes too large. As a former fighter pilot and developer of fighters (the Gripen), I discussed the Chinese-Pakistani JF17 Thunder at length with the pilots that flew the demonstrations. I was surprised by how good the aircraft flew and the level of its systems. They are not far behind the fourth generations fighters that the West has.

It’s time to get the new Russian-Chinese dual aisle project to where bridges are starting to be built again with the West. If that opportunity is lost, it will take a very long time before the next one comes.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
If JF-17 is to be used for full scope of operations then counter insurgency is one of them

And for that operation the PAF needs to add surgical strikes to it's arsenal

Meaning hitting moving targets on the go

Currently this role is fulfilled by only one aircraft the F16 C/D block 52+ which has the fantastic sniper targeting pods and I know they are doing a great job for this role

RAF has used the Brimestone missile with the lighting pods and achieved kills on vehicles traveling at up to 70mph

So the question arrives what about JF-17 in this role

Well we know the WMD-7 targeting pod will be carried on the JF-17 Block III from the recent interview we seen, what is the capability of this pod? It says it's a day/night targeting pod but can it hit a moving target?

Adding precision strike to JF-17 is a block III requirement which is great but I would like to know a bit more on what exactly that capability actually brings
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
If JF-17 is to be used for full scope of operations then counter insurgency is one of them

And for that operation the PAF needs to add surgical strikes to it's arsenal

Meaning hitting moving targets on the go

Currently this role is fulfilled by only one aircraft the F16 C/D block 52+ which has the fantastic sniper targeting pods and I know they are doing a great job for this role

RAF has used the Brimestone missile with the lighting pods and achieved kills on vehicles traveling at up to 70mph

So the question arrives what about JF-17 in this role

Well we know the WMD-7 targeting pod will be carried on the JF-17 Block III from the recent interview we seen, what is the capability of this pod? It says it's a day/night targeting pod but can it hit a moving target?

Adding precision strike to JF-17 is a block III requirement which is great but I would like to know a bit more on what exactly that capability actually brings
So, does that mean JF-17s haven't been used in COIN strikes and wouldn't be until Block III? What about supposed Pakistani media reports of JF-17s in actual combat?
 

[email protected]

Junior Member
Registered Member
So, does that mean JF-17s haven't been used in COIN strikes and wouldn't be until Block III? What about supposed Pakistani media reports of JF-17s in actual combat?

Sorry to interfere again but I believe it is necessary to clarify one more time about JF-17 role in COIN ops

JF-17 for the first time took part in COIN operation in the year '2009' during the South Waziristan operation, their employment remain limited to the delivery of General purpose bombs as in COIN ops it is not always necessary to employ precession strike assets specially in 'active' war zone where the chances for the collateral damage are next to minimum, for precession strikes F-16 are used; here at this stage you need to keep in mind two things

- Those were the earlier produced blk-1 (production of blk-1 started in Pakistan in the year of 2008)
- Therefore their weapon carrying capabilities were limited to basic level which include WVR, BVR, C802 missiles & General purpose bombs (even the latest release documentary shows only basic configuration of Blk-1)

One more thing you are discounting the capabilities of JF-17 too much Blk-III will be a beast of 4.5 gen ....
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
Sorry to interfere again but I believe it is necessary to clarify one more time about JF-17 role in COIN ops

JF-17 for the first time took part in COIN operation in the year '2009' during the South Waziristan operation, their employment remain limited to the delivery of General purpose bombs as in COIN ops it is not always necessary to employ precession strike assets specially in 'active' war zone where the chances for the collateral damage are next to minimum, for precession strikes F-16 are used; here at this stage you need to keep in mind two things

- Those were the earlier produced blk-1 (production of blk-1 started in Pakistan in the year of 2008)
- Therefore their weapon carrying capabilities were limited to basic level which include WVR, BVR, C802 missiles & General purpose bombs (even the latest release documentary shows only basic configuration of Blk-1)

One more thing you are discounting the capabilities of JF-17 too much Blk-III will be a beast of 4.5 gen ....
I'm more open minded about JF-17 capabilities and deployments, if they can be independently verified by non-fanboi sources. As for Block III being any sort of beast, let's just wait and see, because fanbois said Block IIs were supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread too.

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[email protected]

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm more open minded about JF-17 capabilities and deployments, if they can be independently verified by non-fanboi sources. As for Block III being any sort of beast, let's just wait and see, because fanbois said Block IIs were supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread too.

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Well terming someone as fanboy (indirectly) does not indicate OPEN MINDED attitude, I hope you will accept at least this part with Open Mind, now as far as JF-17 is concern it might not be an aeronautical miracle of modern Jet age, but its not an underdog don't underestimate it.

All the pics which are showing the multi-role capabilities of JF-17 with C-802, SD-10 & PL-5 are of blk-1 basic weapon configuration
As secondary weapon capabilities GPS guided, Laser guided, Anti radiation, Smart Mutation all are added even at blk-1 as well, who many single engine aircraft offer such a wide variety of weapon & configuration ... ???
obwAn9I (e).JPG
 

[email protected]

Junior Member
Registered Member
^^ then enjoy this pic from past (AFM July, 2010 issue) .....

View attachment 15208

this pic was taken during the High Mark-2010 aerial exercise; note no dual rack was integrated with Thunders at that time.

Video of aerial bombing from JF-17 during High Mark 2010 exercise (JF-17 appear in video @ 2:11)


this should clear some of the doubts of some people regarding the employment of JF-17 in COIN ops ....
 
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