JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
It's taken from end of November when Sri Lankan Air Marshall was visiting PAC that is indeed Block II first unit

Here's a picture of 2P02 it's very good to finally see Block II not far off rolling out

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Nice even if I would like to see them with the IFR-probe installed (hopefully with a modified design in comparison to the testbed).

Anyway this visit was it "only" some kind of good-will visit to get some information ... or were there even earnest negotiations already ??

Deino
 
Dizasta1

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Verum said:
Core avionics are probably all supplied by China. Pakistan has doesn't have a big industrial complex, which is needed to make those avionics. Avionics are actually the hardest to make out of all the airplane parts.

On a side note, who is the intellectual property owner of this plane now? I know on paper it's 50/50, but Chengdu did 99% of the work and then helped Pakistan to build an industry to manufacture parts for the JF17. Maybe even the funds provided by Pakistan in the early days were financial aids from China.

So now the problem arise. Say now the plane gets exported to another country, does Pakistan get a cut of the profit as an equal partner, or only makes a small profit for the parts it supplies to make the plane?
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Profits are based on work share. When it comes to Pakistan and China, the work share load would be determined between the two corporations involved, i.e PAC & CAC. Depending on the contract volume, work share distribution should be based on capacity and thus the profits would be divided based on such a calculation.

People have to understand, that JF-17 was primarily pursued by Pakistan as a means to marginalize the dependency on Western military hardware. Profiting from the aircraft sales, was secondary plus. However, experiencing 5 years of Asif Ali Zardari as President of Pakistan has left the country in financial ruins, due to the latter President being crook and criminal.

Hence, post 2008, Pakistan Air Force is actively looking to profit from the sales of the aircraft, as a means to sustain the JF-17 Thunder program for the country.
 
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Dizasta1

Dizasta1

Senior Member
schenkus said:
An article about possible export sales for jf-17 in thediplomat:
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Sounds ominous, lets see whether that would translate into actual sales. Either way, it's going to benefit China and Pakistan as well.

Personally, I would love to see Argentina go for JF-17 Thunders, in combination with J-10s. That would really give their air force with the much needed fire power which they seriously lack.
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Deino said:
Nice even if I would like to see them with the IFR-probe installed (hopefully with a modified design in comparison to the testbed).

Anyway this visit was it "only" some kind of good-will visit to get some information ... or were there even earnest negotiations already ??

Deino
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Agree on the IFR probe hope to see a more updated and modern version on the production units

PAC has been really busy in the last year there has been lots of activity and in the last 12 months there has been over 11 foreign delegations visited the site from Dec 2013 to Dec 2014, these are visits and tours showcasing the capability PAC offers to foreign country's also

Sri Lanka
South Africa
Azerbaijan
Nigeria
Bahrain
Turkey (2 visits in 2014)
Qatar
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Jordan

And in the process we signed only one contact for Iraq the Super Mushshak deal

There's not point in having visits for sake of having visits whole point really is to secure exports and I think there is some responsibility which lies with Pakistans marketing team for the JF-17 programme they need to start getting aggressive and market this fighter properly, I have heard them saying things like "yeah this is such a cheap fighter" !? It is NOT a cheap fighters it's a affordable fighter and a economical fighter saying "cheap" just sounds like it's made of paper! Doesn't go down well and this was a pilot saying this at Dubai air show last year maybe Chinese should just take over the marketing process!!

Easily without question we could secure similar orders for export for what we have for PAF use, PAC has capability to produce the units too, so for the 50 x Block I we should have secured 50'x Block I for export considering the huge interest this fighter generates and by now we would have built over 100 x JF-17 Block I

Having said that I don't think it's reasonable to suggest this as Block II hasn't really been available up until now even to PAF I mean who would want a fighter which carrys only air to air missiles? Now that the operating envelope has been establish with full spectrum of weapons it will carry more weight for export orders

Plus you have political issues too it's Pakistans first fighter export people need convincing and they need some confidence which takes years to establish

Having said that I see prospect for export better than ever for the JF-17 Block II there was a time when people said this plane would never fly!! Times are good
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Dizasta1 said:
Sounds ominous, lets see whether that would translate into actual sales. Either way, it's going to benefit China and Pakistan as well.

Personally, I would love to see Argentina go for JF-17 Thunders, in combination with J-10s. That would really give their air force with the much needed fire power which they seriously lack.
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Especially when the Block II is available I can see more and more nations with smaller air force budgets will see this JF-17 as an attractive alternative to upgrading their older fighters.
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
Equation said:
Especially when the Block II is available I can see more and more nations with smaller air force budgets will see this JF-17 as an attractive alternative to upgrading their older fighters.
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The key is Chinese WS13x engine. Once WS13A is ready, it would be sell-able a lot easier
 
Dizasta1

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Yes, WS-13 Taishan, is critical to the success of JF-17 Thunder's sales.

But not just any WS-13 would do. It should be an engine with high-performance, appropriate to the aircraft it would power. That WS-13 should have a higher rate of performance hours between routine maintenance. And finally, it should have greater thrust to weight ratio than RD-93.

A Chinese built engine, for a Chinese built combat aircraft. Now that's one thing that would be the catalyst which would translate into sales. As much as people would like to disagree with this fact, it is still a fact.
 
C

cashcoin

Just Hatched
Registered Member
I find most of you do not know the status of WS-13. Anyway, there is a post from the Chinese web site ****.cn, someone has gathered all official announcement about WS-13 and work out a detail development scheme.

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2001 Project started
2002 Confirmed solutions and responsible division
2003 Aug Engine core component design completed
2004 Jun Core component design was reviewed & approved by experts
2005 Jan Whole engine design drawings and technical documents completed
2005 Oct China Aviation Industry Corporation I officially approved the engine development
2006 First prototype completed
2008 Ground testings finished
2009 Flight testings on test plane finished
2010 18 Mar "Tarzan" engine (WS-13) fitted on FC-1(JF-17), first roll success
18 Apr FC-1, fitted with Tarzan engine, finished maiden flight
2011-2012 Flight tests
2012 Aug Long-run durability test started
2013 Started design finalization processes
2014 According to schedule, design finalization will be completed
2015 - 2016 Schedule to start mass production
 
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