JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[asif iqbal]

As far as we know there is no structural changes from Block I to Block II apart from the IFR and back when 109 was modified they stated that we should see Block II by June 2014 but we haven't seen it yet but what we have seen is a update of a picture of what I have to say I have not seen before so must be Block II

Now they are saying Block II is slipped to end of this year which is a shame because I was expecting really the roll out this summer

Anyhow it's great news another milestone for the JF-17 programme it gives them more time to do more weapons integration

 

[JayBird]

Or maybe it's because PLAAF pilots aren't up to PAF standards.

The JF-17 detected the flanker before it picked up the smaller aircraft Zahid was talking about might be true with the first
batch of the SU-30MKK because of the old N001VEP radar with only a range of 100 km. It won't be true with the updated
newer Su-30MKK or compare with the Indian SU-30Mki's more advanced N011M radar which claim to have a 400 km
search range.

 

[thunderchief]

I would agree, currently IAF has huge advantage in BVR combat over PAF . Bars radar on Su-30MKI is PESA, and PAF F-16s and JF-17s have mechanically steered radars . Not only that, Su-30MKI has Israeli jammers on board which would further degrade opponents chance of early lock .

As it stands, in a current situation PAF would most likely play defensively , relaying on AWACS and other platforms to detect intruders and then vector interceptors to attack them . But offensive sweeps deep in the Indian territory are highly improbable with current technology available to both sides .

 

[Zahid]

Or maybe it's because PLAAF pilots aren't up to PAF standards.

Not necessarily.

I think JF-17 played from a lower altitude to take advantage of ground clutter. In this case BVR shot would have lesser range but still possess good deterrence value.

People who are talking about greater range of PESA radars and such have a very valid point. However there have been rumors (here and elsewhere) that have suggested that Block III would have frontal stealth features with a modified nose, etc... It is also confirmed that PAF is looking at AESA radars to integrate on Block III. It goes without saying that other avionics would also be upgraded. A higher thrust engine is also planned. I can not say if RD93MA would be incorporated in Block II. But Block III would be right up there with the best - no doubt about it.

 

[asif iqbal]

Pakistan has very little strategic depth the air wars are very short the engagement is seconds not minutes and therefore does not require a radar range of a few hundred kms

The Chinese KLJ-7 provide the capability PAF asked for if it didn't they would have picked a more powerful Chinese radar but the range and capability offered was sufficient within doctrine of the PAF and deal was done with China for the radar which otherwise was going to go to France if you remember the avionics and radar was suppose to be French but after evaluation the Chinese systems which were much better and so a all Chinese unit was picked

PAF has requirement not luxury if something is within the scope of the doctrine and satisfies requirement then it's good enough

 

[Blackstone]

Not necessarily.

I think JF-17 played from a lower altitude to take advantage of ground clutter. In this case BVR shot would have lesser range but still possess good deterrence value.

People who are talking about greater range of PESA radars and such have a very valid point. However there have been rumors (here and elsewhere) that have suggested that Block III would have frontal stealth features with a modified nose, etc... It is also confirmed that PAF is looking at AESA radars to integrate on Block III. It goes without saying that other avionics would also be upgraded. A higher thrust engine is also planned. I can not say if RD93MA would be incorporated in Block II. But Block III would be right up there with the best - no doubt about it.

So it's superior tactics with inferior aircrafts defeating superior aircrafts with inferior tactics? Is PLAAF's Soviet roots too rigid to train flexible pilots?

 

[thunderchief]

The Chinese KLJ-7 provide the capability PAF asked for if it didn't they would have picked a more powerful Chinese radar but the range and capability offered was sufficient within doctrine of the PAF and deal was done with China for the radar which otherwise was going to go to France if you remember the avionics and radar was suppose to be French but after evaluation the Chinese systems which were much better and so a all Chinese unit was picked

Let´s not delude ourselves, KLJ-7 was best thing that was available to PAF at that moment . Americans didn't want to integrate their radars into Chinese equipment , Russian radars were unavailable because of India and it is questionable what could fit into JF-17 nose . Other options were Italians (Griffo) and maybe French with their second-tier radars . As for China, KLJ-10 was either not offered or could not be fitted into JF-17 .

 

[broadsword]

I'm sure Asif was referring to the available options. The American radar was never on the table.

 

[Lezt]

So it's superior tactics with inferior aircrafts defeating superior aircrafts with inferior tactics? Is PLAAF's Soviet roots too rigid to train flexible pilots?

Can you justify:

1) how one aircraft is superior? especially when the performance envelopes and roles are different?
2) why is it inferior tactics? how do you come to that conclusion? it is like, red force vs blue force of the USAF, red force is supposed to lose, it doesn't mean that the red force pilots are crap.
3) can you identify what the PLAAF soviet roots are and how it contribute to rigid pilots? since all fighter tactics and discipline is born from WW1, do you also think that all pilots including USAF, RAF, etc have rigid pilots who are also too inflexible to adapt?

 

[Zahid]

So it's superior tactics with inferior aircrafts defeating superior aircrafts with inferior tactics? Is PLAAF's Soviet roots too rigid to train flexible pilots?

This is uncalled for. I won't be baited. All that I wrote beyond the news is speculation on my part. You can run with it if you want on your risk.