JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[asif iqbal]

Interesting pic which you may or may not have seen

 

[asif iqbal]

JF-17 with 3 x 1000L fuel tanks

Thing to note is that it can carry 3 x C802 anti ships missiles but it means the range will be very limited, because that centreline fuel tank is replaced


Either way we can always expect 4 x BVR and 2 x WVR missiles with a centreline fuel tank

This is addition to either 2 x Ra'ad LACM, C802, CM-400AKG Or H2 and H4 JSOW

If you replace the centreline fuel tank with the WMD-7 Electro-Optic targeting pod then again the range will be limited because then you have not external fuel tank same goes for the KG-300 Airborne Self-Protection Jamming pod

Unless they put either one under the wing which might not be ideal, it can carry 4000kg so 3 x Ra'ad is doable became each one is 1100kg so that's 3300kg but you would have to add aerial fuelling to extend its range as no centre line fuel tank will be carried

Aerial refueling is so cool it enhance the capability by so much

 

[asif iqbal]

Ever since the H2/H4 stand off weapons have been reported by Pakistan we have seen very little of these bombs or missiles, some refer to the H4 as a BVR missile which I think is incorrect

H4 specs are given as 1200kg, 3650mm long 380mm diameter range 120km

H2 specs is given as 980kg with 60km range

Pretty clear these are not missile but bombs, moreover glide bombs derived from South African Raptor bombs

Here is H2/4 bombs

JF-17 carrying two H4 bombs

 

[nabil_05]

for international users, some notable points from the interview, credit goes to Graphican on another forum (y)

Pakistan had thought to produce its own fighter aircraft when it was sanctioned by USA in 1980s but we lacked fund to start the project then. After Pressler Amendments (sanctions), we decided to go for it.
- JF-17 is strings free aircraft which we can build, improve and customize the way we like. Its potential is limited by thought.
- This is the only aircraft which you can get for 15-20-25 millions and which customers can customize to their specific needs.
- JF-17 would cost +- 20 millions and other aircrafts like F-16, Mirage 2000 and Rafale would cost 50 millions for the airframe and 80 millions a piece with weapons package.
- Pakistan plans to produce 150 units.
- Pakistan owns 100% rights to avionics and we are producing up to 80% avionics already. 100% indigenization is the target.
- Pakistan has 100% capacity to produce all spareparts. (this is new to me)
- Pakistan owns 58% rights to air-frame and Pakistan is producing 50% already.
- JF-17 will be sold with complete ownership and because of Pakistan and China producing spare parts, no customer country will find shortage of spare supplies.
- As per original plan, Pakistan was to produce 45 units and 5 units were to be made in China but Chinese fellows suggested us to produce 5 units in Pakistan and let China provide 45 units as Pakistan doesn't had Industrial Base, Backup or Trained technicians to produce required number in time. But Pakistan decided to produce all 50 aircrafts and we produced them in time.
- All the air-chiefs who have visited Pakistan have shown keen interest in the development and wanted to know where we are in the process.
- In terms of Capability, JF-17 will be able to perform everything which F-16 is able to do and we are heading closer to the milestone.
- JF-17 can perform at night and in bad weather conditions.
- He mentioned that a comparable aircraft to JF-17 is LCA but Pakistan is producing its second batch now while LCA has 5-6 aircrafts which are flying around.
- Because of its performance in Dubai, negotiations on several contracts have started.
- Its a powerful air-to-air machine and will have all air-to-air capabilities which F-16 has.
- JF-17 will be able to fire BVR, WVR, Anti-Radiation, Anti-Ship Missiles, Precission Guided and Staff-off Munitions (capable to hit targets at 70-80KM)
- Block-II will have in-flight-refueling capability.

 

[SteelBird]

JF-17 with 3 x 1000L fuel tanks

I think not all 3 are 1000L. The center one looks a little smaller and I guess it's a 800L.

 

[mack8]

Pakistan had thought to produce its own fighter aircraft when it was sanctioned by USA in 1980s but we lacked fund to start the project then. After Pressler Amendments (sanctions), we decided to go for it.
- JF-17 is strings free aircraft which we can build, improve and customize the way we like. Its potential is limited by thought.
- This is the only aircraft which you can get for 15-20-25 millions and which customers can customize to their specific needs.
- JF-17 would cost +- 20 millions and other aircrafts like F-16, Mirage 2000 and Rafale would cost 50 millions for the airframe and 80 millions a piece with weapons package.
- Pakistan plans to produce 150 units.
- Pakistan owns 100% rights to avionics and we are producing up to 80% avionics already. 100% indigenization is the target.
- Pakistan has 100% capacity to produce all spareparts. (this is new to me)
- Pakistan owns 58% rights to air-frame and Pakistan is producing 50% already.
- JF-17 will be sold with complete ownership and because of Pakistan and China producing spare parts, no customer country will find shortage of spare supplies.
- As per original plan, Pakistan was to produce 45 units and 5 units were to be made in China but Chinese fellows suggested us to produce 5 units in Pakistan and let China provide 45 units as Pakistan doesn't had Industrial Base, Backup or Trained technicians to produce required number in time. But Pakistan decided to produce all 50 aircrafts and we produced them in time.
- All the air-chiefs who have visited Pakistan have shown keen interest in the development and wanted to know where we are in the process.
- In terms of Capability, JF-17 will be able to perform everything which F-16 is able to do and we are heading closer to the milestone.
- JF-17 can perform at night and in bad weather conditions.
- He mentioned that a comparable aircraft to JF-17 is LCA but Pakistan is producing its second batch now while LCA has 5-6 aircrafts which are flying around.
- Because of its performance in Dubai, negotiations on several contracts have started.
- Its a powerful air-to-air machine and will have all air-to-air capabilities which F-16 has.
- JF-17 will be able to fire BVR, WVR, Anti-Radiation, Anti-Ship Missiles, Precission Guided and Staff-off Munitions (capable to hit targets at 70-80KM)
- Block-II will have in-flight-refueling capability.

Not exactly following this program closely (except through forums like this), but what on earth are they going on about there?! Is that propaganda for internal consumption or what, this is an aircraft developed and built in China by Chengdu (for Pakistan and export), with chinese avionics and weapons and a russian RD-93 engine, and as far as i'm aware ASSEMBLED in Pakistan from kits. Not to mention the previous news about Pakistan (?!) being ready to export them to such and such countries, no kidding huh, they don't have enough for themselves not to mention the capability to build them from scratch, the infrastructure, the after sale support, the REPUTATION, and now they export them? Any export will be fulfilled by China surely, not sure what role they will give (if any) to PAC into such contracts, but surely can't be anything like a major one, what track record of aircraft construction they have, not to mention export.

Still, if i may kindly ask the chinese aviation experts here like Deino, am i mistaken in some of my assessments above, have i missed important recent developments in this program? Thank you.

Anyway, don't want to start any polemic, but i really, really can't stand this kind of shameless bragging and boasting (which reminds me of the iranians), no offence.

 

[Blackstone]

Good points, Mack8. Two questions come to mind, 1) can Pakistan's defense industry manufacture every single part of the JF-17 (except engines)? And 2) why would China let Pakistan be a competitor in the low-end fighter market, using transferred technology?

 

[antiterror13]

Good points, Mack8. Two questions come to mind, 1) can Pakistan's defense industry manufacture every single part of the JF-17 (except engines)? And 2) why would China let Pakistan be a competitor in the low-end fighter market, using transferred technology?

JF-17 is a project of Pakistan and China, there is no competition ... profit from export market will be distributed evenly between China and Pakistan

 

[Totoro]

from the interviews with pakistani officials it seems the program is indeed a 50/50 venture when it comes to exports. they've mentioned both sides are free to negotiate any sort of export deals with any possible customer and they keep each other informed of the talks. such an arangement would only make sense if the proceeds from the exports would indeed be completely equal, otherwise there'd be interrivalry as to who gets to contract the deal. since pakistan paid for a large part of development and production infrastructure, surely pakistan also arranged with china to split the export proceeds.

pakistan seems to be producing a fair chunk of jf17, getting to 50% recently. of course, large portion is still shipped from china for final assembly, and there's the engine issue, so it's far from a complete domestic production.

 

[plawolf]

Not exactly following this program closely (except through forums like this), but what on earth are they going on about there?! Is that propaganda for internal consumption or what, this is an aircraft developed and built in China by Chengdu (for Pakistan and export), with chinese avionics and weapons and a russian RD-93 engine, and as far as i'm aware ASSEMBLED in Pakistan from kits. Not to mention the previous news about Pakistan (?!) being ready to export them to such and such countries, no kidding huh, they don't have enough for themselves not to mention the capability to build them from scratch, the infrastructure, the after sale support, the REPUTATION, and now they export them? Any export will be fulfilled by China surely, not sure what role they will give (if any) to PAC into such contracts, but surely can't be anything like a major one, what track record of aircraft construction they have, not to mention export.

Still, if i may kindly ask the chinese aviation experts here like Deino, am i mistaken in some of my assessments above, have i missed important recent developments in this program? Thank you.

Anyway, don't want to start any polemic, but i really, really can't stand this kind of shameless bragging and boasting (which reminds me of the iranians), no offence.

The JF17 is a 50/50 joint venture between China and Pakistan. Both will benefit from any export orders, and there is so much mutual trust and respect that both sides trust the other to market the bird independently without worrying that deals might be signed with countries the other partner object to. Obviously there is a great deal of communications and coordination, but its more an informal basis whereby both sides trust each other to do their own stuff and keep the other side in the loop.

This makes a lot of sense as Pakistan has a lot of deep relationships with many ME countries, and other Muslim countries like Turkey. The Pakistanis going to them as a long term trusted friend telling their real life friends just what a great plane the JF17 is and what an amazing deal they got from China will be far more convincing than any professional sales pitch from Chinese officials.

China may have done the lion share of the work in terms of developing the plane, but it has also been very generous about ToT. I have seen reports of Chinese engineers not only setting up a radar assembly facility in Pakistan for the JF17, but also staying on as teachers and technical consultants to teach the Pakistanis all they need to know and answer any questions they may have. The level of technological transfer and cooperation is pretty unprecedented, even compared to other Chinese defense products, and that is all down to Pakistan being an equal and full partner in this JV.

I dare say Pakistan would not have gotten this level of tech transfer and total freedom to poke around and modify the plane and its electronics as they wish had they gone with another fighter type that the PLAAF currently fields, like the J10 for example, which may be why Pakistan seems less keen to get it than one might expect given the obvious capability leap the J10 would offer compared to the JF17.

In effect, Pakistan didn't just buy a fighter, it bought a fighter making aviation industry. I think that is a big distinction between what China means by ToT and what Western and Russian firms mean when they say it, and I think that is a huge selling point for Chinese weapons in general, and the JF17 in particular. Although saying that, I also seriously doubt other export customers would get the same unbelievable deal as Pakistan if they bought the JF17 on account of them not being equal partners and also down to the sheer practicability of Pakistan wanting to keep some secrets about its backbone fighter to itself.