JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
- Start date
- Status
Wall Street Journal begins an article with:
China has agreed to provide 50 more JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan on an "expedited" basis, a spokesman for the Pakistani air force said, one of the most concrete illustrations yet of how China could fill the vacuum if the U.S. scales down its aid to Pakistan following the raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
Are these aircraft to be created out of thin air?
China to Speed Up Fighter Jets for Pakistan
China has agreed to provide 50 more JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan on an "expedited" basis, a spokesman for the Pakistani air force said, one of the most concrete illustrations yet of how China could fill the vacuum if the U.S. scales down its aid to Pakistan following the raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
Are these aircraft to be created out of thin air?
China to Speed Up Fighter Jets for Pakistan
is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
usually the answers to the above questions are like: J-10 is too expensive, pakistan cannot afford it; china doesn't want to sell its best fighter; selling J-10 to pakistan may break the strategic balance in south asia..... but taking into account the development cost (for the aircraft & the engine), and the purchase number, it doesn't save much; China is testing the J-20 now, J-10 is no longer the ace card; as for the balance issue, india basically can go out to buy whatever it likes, why can't china sell J-10 to pakistan?
usually the answers to the above questions are like: J-10 is too expensive, pakistan cannot afford it; china doesn't want to sell its best fighter; selling J-10 to pakistan may break the strategic balance in south asia..... but taking into account the development cost (for the aircraft & the engine), and the purchase number, it doesn't save much; China is testing the J-20 now, J-10 is no longer the ace card; as for the balance issue, india basically can go out to buy whatever it likes, why can't china sell J-10 to pakistan?
MwRYum
Major
Re: is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
Do you know that, in a nutshell, JF-17 is CAC deliver as per Pakistan's requirement? Back then they looked at FC-1 project and decided that's what they wanted, with some adjustments and modifications.
And for J-10 its role is filled by F-16, until they decided they need something new and something more.
Do you know that, in a nutshell, JF-17 is CAC deliver as per Pakistan's requirement? Back then they looked at FC-1 project and decided that's what they wanted, with some adjustments and modifications.
And for J-10 its role is filled by F-16, until they decided they need something new and something more.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Re: is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
India could do the same selling weapons to Taiwan or Vietnam
India could do the same selling weapons to Taiwan or Vietnam
MwRYum
Major
Re: is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
You know some people in Taiwan actually voiced that as a sound idea...from political standpoint it maybe so, but given India have a history of budget overshot and acute delays with just about all its projects, it's gonna be "interesting" for the buyer...
You know some people in Taiwan actually voiced that as a sound idea...from political standpoint it maybe so, but given India have a history of budget overshot and acute delays with just about all its projects, it's gonna be "interesting" for the buyer...
Re: is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
I can't see them selling to Taiwan considering the Taiwanese defense industry is as capable of producing advanced equipment if not more advanced, than the Indians. Same goes for Vietnam -- there's not a lot India can sell to anyone apart from a few Dhurv helicopters and rifles. An India-Taiwan defense deal will break all hell loose with regards to sino-indian ties... and I don't think they're willing to sever ties like that yet.
Regarding this recent deal of 50 JF-17s, I think that this must have been in the works for a while, and is just the next block of JF-17s which I imagine would have begun construction before the "deal" was signed.
I can't see them selling to Taiwan considering the Taiwanese defense industry is as capable of producing advanced equipment if not more advanced, than the Indians. Same goes for Vietnam -- there's not a lot India can sell to anyone apart from a few Dhurv helicopters and rifles. An India-Taiwan defense deal will break all hell loose with regards to sino-indian ties... and I don't think they're willing to sever ties like that yet.
Regarding this recent deal of 50 JF-17s, I think that this must have been in the works for a while, and is just the next block of JF-17s which I imagine would have begun construction before the "deal" was signed.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
What does India have to offer Taiwan or Vietnam that would make much of a difference at all in the strategic context?
India doesn't even have LCAs in their own air force, the plane, like every other major weapon system India has developed 'indiginously' is so full of foreign parts, it will probably take longer for the lawyers to get export authorisation from all interested parties as it would take to build the jets themselves. If even a single foreign supplier says 'no' to selling arms to Taiwan, that's probably years more of delays and budget over runs to find a replacement part.
Even if they managed to somehow deliver actual examples, the LCA is at best on a similar level to Taiwan's existing M2Ks or F16s, and certainly no match against th latest F16s Taiwan want from the US, or the J10A.
That's just the problems India would face in trying to deliver weapons. In reality, any such move by India will draw a powerful response from China.
Shifting some of the ballistic missiles currently deployed near Taiwan to Tibet as well as some modern fighters or even 1st teer ground forces would force the Indians to respond likewise and will tie a significant portion of their forces down in the west. That will weaken India's deployment against Pakistan, or force them to have to increase the number of men and machines in their military to compensate.
China could sign a mutual defense pack with Pakistan that will realise India's worst nightmare of a war on two fronts if they make a move against Pakistan.
If China wants to be less confrontational, they can introduce a similar military aid programme to Pakistan as the US has.
Its not secret the PAF would dearly love to have J10s, but cannot afford them on top of all the over things they are buying. China could gift them a few regiments if they wanted to. Maybe also throw in some HQ9s in there as well.
In short, it is highly questionable what weapons India could actually provide Taiwan or Vietnam even if they wanted to. Even if they somehow managed to deliver those weapons, they will make only a limited impact as nothing India can make is as advanced or capable as what the PLA already has operationally deployed, and by the time the Indians deliver export weapons, if their past performance is any indication, the experimental/prototype stage weapons we are seeing today in China will probably be operational. At best, selling weapons to Taiwan will anger China.
OTOH, China can easily do things that will massively screw with India's national security to the point of potentially changing the whole strategic balanace in South Asia.
China's current main strategic and military focus is towards the East. It would be an incredible stupid move for India to do something so provocative as to give Beijing real cause to change that focus on them.
What does India have to offer Taiwan or Vietnam that would make much of a difference at all in the strategic context?
India doesn't even have LCAs in their own air force, the plane, like every other major weapon system India has developed 'indiginously' is so full of foreign parts, it will probably take longer for the lawyers to get export authorisation from all interested parties as it would take to build the jets themselves. If even a single foreign supplier says 'no' to selling arms to Taiwan, that's probably years more of delays and budget over runs to find a replacement part.
Even if they managed to somehow deliver actual examples, the LCA is at best on a similar level to Taiwan's existing M2Ks or F16s, and certainly no match against th latest F16s Taiwan want from the US, or the J10A.
That's just the problems India would face in trying to deliver weapons. In reality, any such move by India will draw a powerful response from China.
Shifting some of the ballistic missiles currently deployed near Taiwan to Tibet as well as some modern fighters or even 1st teer ground forces would force the Indians to respond likewise and will tie a significant portion of their forces down in the west. That will weaken India's deployment against Pakistan, or force them to have to increase the number of men and machines in their military to compensate.
China could sign a mutual defense pack with Pakistan that will realise India's worst nightmare of a war on two fronts if they make a move against Pakistan.
If China wants to be less confrontational, they can introduce a similar military aid programme to Pakistan as the US has.
Its not secret the PAF would dearly love to have J10s, but cannot afford them on top of all the over things they are buying. China could gift them a few regiments if they wanted to. Maybe also throw in some HQ9s in there as well.
In short, it is highly questionable what weapons India could actually provide Taiwan or Vietnam even if they wanted to. Even if they somehow managed to deliver those weapons, they will make only a limited impact as nothing India can make is as advanced or capable as what the PLA already has operationally deployed, and by the time the Indians deliver export weapons, if their past performance is any indication, the experimental/prototype stage weapons we are seeing today in China will probably be operational. At best, selling weapons to Taiwan will anger China.
OTOH, China can easily do things that will massively screw with India's national security to the point of potentially changing the whole strategic balanace in South Asia.
China's current main strategic and military focus is towards the East. It would be an incredible stupid move for India to do something so provocative as to give Beijing real cause to change that focus on them.
That's an absolute pathetic "news" article!
Out of all the things Gilani did and discussed in his trip to China, they cherry picked this one, blew it out of proportion and tied the whole Sino-Pakistan relationship to this fighter jet deal.
But what annoys me the most, is how the US media thinks everything is related to and about them; China is "giving" Pakistan fighter jets, then it must be in response to our bin Laden raid.
They have no concept that China and Pakistan's relationship is much more than arms deals, much deeper than US's war in Afghanistan...there's real meaning and reason behind why Pakistan calls China a "all weather friend and ally".
Ridiculous pieces of trash "news" articles like that one dont deserve to get mentioned.
Re: is JF-17/FC-1 good enough? why doesn't China supply J-10 to Pakistan instead?
Free J-10s are always welcome. (just like the 50 JF-17s). Paid for J-10s, I think is getting a bit too optimistic.
But I think J-10s will not be offered because J-10 production capacity is not free at the moment.
JF-17 has no orders as of now .... so it makes perfect sense to offer them to Pakistan for Free.
(In fact, there may be some other countries looking for free JF-17s too e.g. some African countries, Bangladesh ..... Sri Lanka, yes, but probably if they want, they will have to pay atleast something)
Possibly, later on J-10 will also be available for Free ... but 5 or maybe even 10 years later.
LCA is unlikely to be given to anyone, anytime near ..... but if at all, it won't be for free. Other items, maybe to Afghanistan or Myanmar.
It sounds strange if China is also going to buy and pay for the RD-93 on these 50 JF-17s.
Or it could be planning to put some own engine .... since Pakistan can't complain, since it's getting everything Free.
Free J-10s are always welcome. (just like the 50 JF-17s). Paid for J-10s, I think is getting a bit too optimistic.
But I think J-10s will not be offered because J-10 production capacity is not free at the moment.
JF-17 has no orders as of now .... so it makes perfect sense to offer them to Pakistan for Free.
(In fact, there may be some other countries looking for free JF-17s too e.g. some African countries, Bangladesh ..... Sri Lanka, yes, but probably if they want, they will have to pay atleast something)
Possibly, later on J-10 will also be available for Free ... but 5 or maybe even 10 years later.
LCA is unlikely to be given to anyone, anytime near ..... but if at all, it won't be for free. Other items, maybe to Afghanistan or Myanmar.
It sounds strange if China is also going to buy and pay for the RD-93 on these 50 JF-17s.
Or it could be planning to put some own engine .... since Pakistan can't complain, since it's getting everything Free.
- Status