Japanese ships disrupted Chinese naval exercises

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

I hope the JMSDF ship didn't light up the Chinese ship with their fire control radar or pulse Doppler. That would be very serious and I think breaks a few intl maritime laws.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Blackstone said:

Humm, I recall a PLAN diesel-electric submarine surfacing near the Kitty Hawk CBG, and we didn't act like the world was going to end. How loud would the China government scream if a Japanese submarine did the same to CS Liaoning?

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As you said, that was a submarine. In the case of Japan, its surface ships ignored multiple warnings and cut through center of Chinese task force. The former is mostly a covert mission where the submarine tried not to get noticed. The latter is the complete opposite. There is no similarity.

Like I have pointed out before, the Japan has been doing this for a long time. This recent event is China's first official complaint to the Japanese government regarding such matter. This will allow China to respond with far stronger actions when meet with similar provocation from Japan in the future. In other words, China is escalating its response now in preparation for Liaoning future's missions.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Blackstone said:

Humm, I recall a PLAN diesel-electric submarine surfacing near the Kitty Hawk CBG, and we didn't act like the world was going to end. How loud would the China government scream if a Japanese submarine did the same to CS Liaoning?

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You are mixing things up. Kitty hawk was doing transition in open international water. Every country is entitle to go anywhere in international water. PLAN sub is entitle to go anywhere in international water. What can the American do?

But Chinese are conducting an exercise which they are needed to declared the restricted area as it might conduct live firing. This is help to avoid injuring of other participants if live missile firing start flying around. In this case, PLAN ship are not transiting. They are cordoning off an area restricted to other ships. Other countries need to respect other countries conducting exercise.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

If I were a Chinese commander, I would set up a little trap for Japan. First, I would conduct exercise in International water, expecting Japan's disruption as usual. Once Japan got a ship in the middle of the fleet, I would change formation quickly to encircle the Japanese ship. Then the ball would be in Japan's court with three choices.

1. Stay quiet and get suck in the middle until Chinese got enough fun.
2. Complain and be shamed internationally since Japan's ship has no place in the middle of Chinese task force in the first place.
3. Have the ship force its way out and face with repressions.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Engineer said:

Think of pictures with Chinese ships sailing in a single line. Now, think of Japanese ship cutting through the middle of that line from left to right, then from right to left. That's the sort of stunt Japan pulls, all the time. Once, Japan even interfered with a Chinese UNREP exercise by using a ship to "squeeze" Chinese replenishment ship. Forum members who are well-versed with searching in Chinese should look up that incident. In any case, Japanese ship was so aggressive that it ultimately required Chinese commander to send in another frigate to act as a barrier. Anything that requires active response from China is not just a simple monitoring of exercise.

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Now you are blandly making things up since what you described is a violation of international navigation regulations and a captain of a ship regardless of experience would not take such a reckless risk of endangering another ship as well as his own on a collision course.

Unlike cars, ships cannot stop at a moment notice and even though war ships are more maneuverable then a cargo ships they still need some distance to stop and/or change course.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

SamuraiBlue said:

Now you are blandly making things up since what you described is a violation of international navigation regulations and a captain of a ship regardless of experience would not take such a reckless risk of endangering another ship as well as his own on a collision course.

Unlike cars, ships cannot stop at a moment notice and even though war ships are more maneuverable then a cargo ships they still need some distance to stop and/or change course.

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Except it isn't made up. A formation moves at constant speed and in very predictable way, with large gap between ships. What I have described not that dangerous to do, but is extremely provocative.

Whether the act is seen as violation of international laws depends on who the perpetrator is. As an example, Japanese helicopters buzz over Chinese ships all the time and no one in the West complains. When Chinese do the same to Japanese ship, it somehow became reckless.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Engineer said:

Except it isn't made up. A formation moves at constant speed and in very predictable way, with large gap between ships. What I have described not that dangerous to do, but is extremely provocative.

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That can only happen if each and every captain knows the maneuvers and carefully coordinated. JMSDF captains are not fool hearted to pull a stunt like that which endanger his crew, ship and his career in which he will no doubtfully be discharged from duty for intentionally placing his ship and crew in harms way for no reason.

This will happen in any good structured navy like the USN, RN,RAN, JMSDF, etc.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

I do hope that nothing serious happens when the PLAN held their first exercise with the Liaoning away on open sea, given how sensitive the setting can be.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

I suspect that none of us here know exactly what the international maritime treaty is on navy live fire exercise zones. >_>

There are only 2 possible cases:

1. The treaty specify that other navy's ships MUST stay clear of the live fire zone for limited duration of the exercise.
2. The treaty (or lack of) does not REQUIRE other navy ships to stay out of the live fire zone.

In case #1, if Japan violated the live fire zone for duration of exercise, then Japan has violated the treaty, agreement, law, or whatever.

In case #2, Japan is not obligated to stay out of the live fire zone. It's possible that there are no treaties on this, or staying clear of live fire zone is a recommendation only.

Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

usaf0314 said:

I don't want to be a warmonger or anything. But if Japan keep this kind of things up, it will be escalated. And its only a matter of time before they make a mistake and give China a reason/excuse to retaliate... especially right now when anti-Japanese sentiment are high among the citizens in China.

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And that is exactly what the Japanese want China to do since it will give Japan a legitimate reason to fester more US military support; China must stay calm and know that time is on its side.