Japanese ships disrupted Chinese naval exercises

Blackstone

Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

IJN was Japan's pre-WWII Navy designation, before we put it in Davey Jones' locker.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

And? Japan denied that they did something against international rules. What's wrong with that? You were there and saw that with your eyes or contacted some high ranked PLAN officers while not even being able to respond what can a vessel do during drills?Where did you get it? I bet you had at least taken your camera with you as it would be quiet an amazing look to see a sole Japanese SDF vessel intruding a manouvering fleet of Chinese vessels in the midst of live-firing exercise in the middle of Pacific!

BTW, what's INJ?Ok, what are the real regulations and how did it look there? Kill me with an argument.

Read the article again:

“It is not true that we carried out dangerous actions that interfered with the Chinese Navy’s exercises,” Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato told reporters in Tokyo today

I don't know what you're on about international rules, but the Chinese side is saying the Japanese navy has carried out actions that jeopardized the safety of its ships and aircraft. The Chinese will obviously have recorded evidence to back this up, and the Japanese would be pretty foolish to deny this.

Considering the pattern of dangerous Japanese harassment of Chinese naval drills, this incident is not all that surprising.

There was a forumite who started writing fiction about a China-Japan war that started fighter jet maneuvers. Seems like he should've used naval exercises instead. :)
 

AeroEngineer

Junior Member
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Read the article again:



I don't know what you're on about international rules, but the Chinese side is saying the Japanese navy has carried out actions that jeopardized the safety of its ships and aircraft. The Chinese will obviously have recorded evidence to back this up, and the Japanese would be pretty foolish to deny this.

Considering the pattern of dangerous Japanese harassment of Chinese naval drills, this incident is not all that surprising.

There was a forumite who started writing fiction about a China-Japan war that started fighter jet maneuvers. Seems like he should've used naval exercises instead. :)


The inevitable war in the next 5 years !!!
 

Rutim

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

What story am I making up here? Japan ultimately did not provide the evidence of FC radar lock on. They claimed they had data but that was never shown to the world. That's a fact. Now if they presented evidence, it would change that fact but it hasn't happened yet.
Did PLAN make an official request for the data? No. Did you? No. If they had - they would get a press conference from Japanese MOD to show it. Did they deny using FC radar and all they wrote was 'observation' as I wrote - they did. Oh, they even wrote a whole paragraph about series of 'false accustations' in an offcial statement. Call that professional. Did they wrote anything those 'false accustations' based on data? Nope.
Just because China did not ask for the evidence doesn't change the burden of proof since that was a Japanese protest.
They didn't have to. They knew what happened there and there's no point in arguing with that. Japanese waited with press conference to process the data throughly and confirm that it won't be a bunch of 'false accustations' (and it took them three days from the press conference in Tokyo to put English translation of that on a gov site - I don't know what date had the original statement in Chinese). And no - Chinese Army isn't as transparent organisation as SDF. You can't deny that at least.
I don't know what you're on about international rules, but the Chinese side is saying the Japanese navy has carried out actions that jeopardized the safety of its ships and aircraft. The Chinese will obviously have recorded evidence to back this up, and the Japanese would be pretty foolish to deny this.
Fingers crossed. They're probably analyising photos and encoding videos for a week. About international law - I asked if you know what happened there and what are the regulations. In short, I wanted you to provide any kind of ground-based argument in discussion for once.
Read the article again:
And what's wrong with that? Can't see any 'false statement' there in the light of current state of knowledge from mass-media (a protest from Chinese embassy in Tokyo and we don't even know what was in it, we only know what Chinese press wrote).
 
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Engineer

Major
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Did PLAN make an official request for the data? No. Did you? No. If they had - they would get a press conference from Japanese MOD to show it. Did they deny using FC radar and all they wrote was 'observation' as I wrote - they did. Oh, they even wrote a whole paragraph about series of 'false accustations' in an offcial statement. Call that professional. Did they wrote anything those 'false accustations' based on data? Nope.
Did China admitted using fire control radar? Nope. Did Japan provide a channel for Chinese or anyone else to request the data? Nope. You won't be able to find an official statement from Japanese saying something like "anyone is welcome to make a request and we will provide the data". The bottom line is that Japan has shown absolutely nothing to backup their accusation of China.

They didn't have to. They knew what happened there and there's no point in arguing with that. Japanese waited with press conference to process the data throughly and confirm that it won't be a bunch of 'false accustations' (and it took them three days from the press conference in Tokyo to put English translation of that on a gov site - I don't know what date had the original statement in Chinese). And no - Chinese Army isn't as transparent organisation as SDF. You can't deny that at least.
The fact that Japan waited to process the data, then backed down from publishing those data only highlights the fact that Japan did not have a solid case to begin with. Japan's own data might even show the self defense force conducting all sorts of aggressive activities against Chinese task force. So, Japanese knew what happened, and what happened was that the accusations have no basis in facts.
 

Engineer

Major
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

In the big picture, it's legal for nations to conduct exercises in international waters and it's legal for others to monitor those exercises. China needs to get over its objections of others keeping close eyes on it.
Think of pictures with Chinese ships sailing in a single line. Now, think of Japanese ship cutting through the middle of that line from left to right, then from right to left. That's the sort of stunt Japan pulls, all the time. Once, Japan even interfered with a Chinese UNREP exercise by using a ship to "squeeze" Chinese replenishment ship. Forum members who are well-versed with searching in Chinese should look up that incident. In any case, Japanese ship was so aggressive that it ultimately required Chinese commander to send in another frigate to act as a barrier. Anything that requires active response from China is not just a simple monitoring of exercise.

The latest Sino-Japanese spat is just another in a long line of incidents and conflicts stretching back thousands of years between two people that don't like each other. I just hope we don't allow our vassal state drag us into kinetic actions with China.
This is more than that. This is Japan thinking they are entitled to do anything. Imagine what would happened if Chinese warships force their way into a US carrier task force despite repeated warnings. First, everyone would see that as a pure provocation plain and simple. Second, the guns on US ships would be blazing.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

This is more than that. This is Japan thinking they are entitled to do anything. Imagine what would happened if Chinese warships force their way into a US carrier task force despite repeated warnings. First, everyone would see that as a pure provocation plain and simple. Second, the guns on US ships would be blazing.

Humm, I recall a PLAN diesel-electric submarine surfacing near the Kitty Hawk CBG, and we didn't act like the world was going to end. How loud would the China government scream if a Japanese submarine did the same to CS Liaoning?
 

joshuatree

Captain
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

Did PLAN make an official request for the data? No. Did you? No. If they had - they would get a press conference from Japanese MOD to show it. Did they deny using FC radar and all they wrote was 'observation' as I wrote - they did. Oh, they even wrote a whole paragraph about series of 'false accustations' in an offcial statement. Call that professional. Did they wrote anything those 'false accustations' based on data? Nope.

Did I? Wow, I didn't know I had such authority. Okay Rutim, I officially am requesting for Japan to show me its data on FC radar lock. Ball in Japan's court. :p

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. The concept of burden of proof falls on whoever is making the charge. I call the Japanese govt disingenuous. You want China to prove exercises were disrupted? That's fine. I want Japan to prove it was FC radar lock. Just making an accusation and claiming you have data without showing it still means it's only an accusation. If you want to claim the data is sensitive and don't want to give that up, then the accusation has no bite. Can't have your cake and eat it too.


They didn't have to. They knew what happened there and there's no point in arguing with that. Japanese waited with press conference to process the data throughly and confirm that it won't be a bunch of 'false accustations' (and it took them three days from the press conference in Tokyo to put English translation of that on a gov site - I don't know what date had the original statement in Chinese). And no - Chinese Army isn't as transparent organisation as SDF. You can't deny that at least.

I've replied using your own logic, applying your standards to both the current exercise disruption charge and to the FC radar lock charge. All you do is say, "you don't know this, Japan has this data, Japan has prep this conference, they knew what happened", blah blah blah. Give the link, give the data. You don't need to ramble on China's lack of transparency and all that jazz. A single pro-active release of the FC lock data, the evidence, would put all arguments to rest. Simple and direct. Rebuttals with "you didn't ask" is a childish reply meaning no evidence.
 
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