Japanese ships disrupted Chinese naval exercises
- Thread starter kroko
- Start date
Equation
Lieutenant General
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
So does shadowing a Chinese Naval fleet conducting drills in international waters constitute as an hostile act or is it just the sneaky Japanese way of doing things to cause trouble?
So does shadowing a Chinese Naval fleet conducting drills in international waters constitute as an hostile act or is it just the sneaky Japanese way of doing things to cause trouble?
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
Murasame DDGs are not old, or incapable vessels. They are good destroyers, with good handling qualities, and well armed. The JS Ikazuchi, DD-107 was commissioned in 2001 so she is only 12 years old.
What is not clear from this report is this:
1) Just how close to the Chinese vessels did JS Ikazuchi, DD-107, come during this event?
2) Did the JS Ikazuchi ever impede with, or hazard any navigation of the Chinese vessels?
3) Were there any blatant sensor actions during the event, ie. the Japanese vessel locking up and Chinese vessel?
The exercises were well out to sea in international waters. All of the vessels had a right to be there and freely navigate through there. Unless the Japanese vessel did any of the things mentioned above, or something like them, then simply sailing within the area of their exercise, despite their protest and communications to not do so, is not a "provocation," from a diplomatic standpoint. It certainly is an interference, and may border on harassement.
I am sure the surveillance aircraft, possibly a P-3, was there precisely to record how the Chinese vessels reacted, and I would not be surprised to learn that the Japanese also had a submarine in the area doing the same thing under the cover of the Ikazuchi's actions.
Such actions are bordering on cold war type activities here...and during the cold war, sometimes these antics escalated to ships actually colliding with one another causing injuries and death of service people on either side. I hope these do not take that route...but I can imagine at the least, that in some future Japanese exercise at sea, that the PLAN may return the favor.
Thanks for this report. It gives us more information.
Murasame DDGs are not old, or incapable vessels. They are good destroyers, with good handling qualities, and well armed. The JS Ikazuchi, DD-107 was commissioned in 2001 so she is only 12 years old.
What is not clear from this report is this:
1) Just how close to the Chinese vessels did JS Ikazuchi, DD-107, come during this event?
2) Did the JS Ikazuchi ever impede with, or hazard any navigation of the Chinese vessels?
3) Were there any blatant sensor actions during the event, ie. the Japanese vessel locking up and Chinese vessel?
The exercises were well out to sea in international waters. All of the vessels had a right to be there and freely navigate through there. Unless the Japanese vessel did any of the things mentioned above, or something like them, then simply sailing within the area of their exercise, despite their protest and communications to not do so, is not a "provocation," from a diplomatic standpoint. It certainly is an interference, and may border on harassement.
I am sure the surveillance aircraft, possibly a P-3, was there precisely to record how the Chinese vessels reacted, and I would not be surprised to learn that the Japanese also had a submarine in the area doing the same thing under the cover of the Ikazuchi's actions.
Such actions are bordering on cold war type activities here...and during the cold war, sometimes these antics escalated to ships actually colliding with one another causing injuries and death of service people on either side. I hope these do not take that route...but I can imagine at the least, that in some future Japanese exercise at sea, that the PLAN may return the favor.
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Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
PLAN never denied that 'radar' case (or I should say - outside of China). No one requested the data as well... So it's not baseless as even the time, exposure duration and how far two vessels known from the name were at the time.
Japanese only said that it didn't harm international rules. They didn't say they weren't in the area at the time of the drill. No one denies anything as you're misinterpreting something or you don't know what the Japanese side said abaout that (which true). Or maybe you have some better sources than Japanese MOD and know ministers personally (can't deny such thing).
solarz
Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
I think the cold war comparison is very apt, Jeff. We might very well be seeing a new cold war between China and Japan. The public opinion of either parties is firmly entrenched against each other, but the cost of war is far too disastrous to contemplate for both sides. The logical consequence of those conditions seem to be cold war.
I think the cold war comparison is very apt, Jeff. We might very well be seeing a new cold war between China and Japan. The public opinion of either parties is firmly entrenched against each other, but the cost of war is far too disastrous to contemplate for both sides. The logical consequence of those conditions seem to be cold war.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
Well this is a pointlessly petty act of belligerence by the INJ. They were not content to just monitor the exercise, but actually barged into the middle of the PLAN formation to actively disrupt it.
If this sort of thing happens again, the PLAN should issue an announcement that it will not be held responsible for the safety of any Japanese ships or aircraft that ignores its warning and wonders into a live fire exercise. If the INJ ignores that warning and tries to do this again, the PLAN should just put a shot across the bow of the INJ ship and keep firing at that exact spot and see if the Japanese captain is actually stupid enough to play chicken with a cannon shell.
China has declared that it will hold a live fire exercise. If you are stupid enough to ignore that and go into the designated danger zone, than its your own fault if you get hit.
Well this is a pointlessly petty act of belligerence by the INJ. They were not content to just monitor the exercise, but actually barged into the middle of the PLAN formation to actively disrupt it.
If this sort of thing happens again, the PLAN should issue an announcement that it will not be held responsible for the safety of any Japanese ships or aircraft that ignores its warning and wonders into a live fire exercise. If the INJ ignores that warning and tries to do this again, the PLAN should just put a shot across the bow of the INJ ship and keep firing at that exact spot and see if the Japanese captain is actually stupid enough to play chicken with a cannon shell.
China has declared that it will hold a live fire exercise. If you are stupid enough to ignore that and go into the designated danger zone, than its your own fault if you get hit.
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
BTW, what's INJ?
And? Japan denied that they did something against international rules. What's wrong with that? You were there and saw that with your eyes or contacted some high ranked PLAN officers while not even being able to respond what can a vessel do during drills?
Where did you get it? I bet you had at least taken your camera with you as it would be quiet an amazing look to see a sole Japanese SDF vessel intruding a manouvering fleet of Chinese vessels in the midst of live-firing exercise in the middle of Pacific!
BTW, what's INJ?
Ok, what are the real regulations and how did it look there? Kill me with an argument.
joshuatree
Captain
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
What story am I making up here? Japan ultimately did not provide the evidence of FC radar lock on. They claimed they had data but that was never shown to the world. That's a fact. Now if they presented evidence, it would change that fact but it hasn't happened yet. Just because Japan said so is no different than how you feel about China currently protesting the exercise disruption without providing evidence. That's the point I made in my previous reply. You alluded that it's China's burden to provide evidence in this protest and it would be the same on Japan for the FC lock on claim. Just because China did not ask for the evidence doesn't change the burden of proof since that was a Japanese protest.
What story am I making up here? Japan ultimately did not provide the evidence of FC radar lock on. They claimed they had data but that was never shown to the world. That's a fact. Now if they presented evidence, it would change that fact but it hasn't happened yet. Just because Japan said so is no different than how you feel about China currently protesting the exercise disruption without providing evidence. That's the point I made in my previous reply. You alluded that it's China's burden to provide evidence in this protest and it would be the same on Japan for the FC lock on claim. Just because China did not ask for the evidence doesn't change the burden of proof since that was a Japanese protest.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies
IJN= imperial Japanese navy the force that was destroyed in the second world war.
used a petty derogatory pet name of the JMSDF in this context.
IJN= imperial Japanese navy the force that was destroyed in the second world war.
used a petty derogatory pet name of the JMSDF in this context.