Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head said:

As I stated, the Japanese Defense Forces spend 60 billion a year (now) and its increasing each year. All the forces will get new equipment (what you call toys). They are not toys. They are serious equipment for the defense of the Japanese people.

Anyhow, the LCS class will replace older light frigates and patrol class, just like the American LCS class is doing. So it's not like it is a completely new addition. As I stated, the JMSDF is very good at modernizing within the constraints of their budget and I expect most of their LCS class, which I do not expect will be like the US Navy's LCS class, will be done through that mechanism.

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Very well, will use more gravity in tone. Duly noted. Less fun and more business.

On the other hand, Japanese defense contractors have been pretty bad at delivering things at a competitive price, though the C-2 may be a sign of improvement. The JSDMF has been historically the best at imposing cost discipline out of all the branches, though.

Skywatcher said:

Very well, will use more gravity in tone. Duly noted. Less fun and more business.

On the other hand, Japanese defense contractors have been pretty bad at delivering things at a competitive price, though the C-2 may be a sign of improvement. The JSDMF has been historically the best at imposing cost discipline out of all the branches, though.

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Yes, costs are an issue in Japan. This is mainly because when using their indigenous products, they have relatively small purchases in terms of numbers of tanks, or fighters, or even ships. Still, the Japanese do a LOT of research and develop many of their own systems, so all of that R&D cost is then spread out over fewer lot numbers. This almost ensures that the costs will be high.

Then when you add in any inefficiencies, any "back scratching," etc., it just makes things worse.

But right out of the chute, because of the issues I just described, the Japanese Self Defense forces will generally spend more for their equipment than a large nation like the US, or China, etc. would.

Jeff Head said:

Yes, costs are an issue in Japan. This is mainly because when using their indigenous products, they have relatively small purchases in terms of numbers of tanks, or fighters, or even ships. Still, the Japanese do a LOT of research and develop many of their own systems, so all of that R&D cost is then spread out over fewer lot numbers. This almost ensures that the costs will be high.

Then when you add in any inefficiencies, any "back scratching," etc., it just makes things worse.

But right out of the chute, because of the issues I just described, the Japanese Self Defense forces will generally spend more for their equipment than a large nation like the US, or China, etc. would.

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Mitsubishi should be more like Kawasaki (even in a single market, the C-2 is already a much better buy than the A-400M, IMO). I wonder if exports will help?

Japan has some pretty unique needs (IE tanks for mountainous islands), so they do have to research a lot of things themselves.

Skywatcher said:

Mitsubishi should be more like Kawasaki (even in a single market, the C-2 is already a much better buy than the A-400M, IMO). I wonder if exports will help?

Japan has some pretty unique needs (IE tanks for mountainous islands), so they do have to research a lot of things themselves.

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Well, I believe to date that the Japanese export market has been non-existnt.

However, according to SamuraiBlue, earlier on this thread, that may be about to change.

So yes, an export market for certain versions of what they develop for themselves could help reduce costs to Japane Defense Forces, and make these manufacturers more profitable.

The Japanese might go for building sub-components and co-developed things like the SM-3, apart from selling cargo and seaplanes (frankly, their AFVs aren't that special, the global AShM market is over-saturated, their SSKs are probably too pricey for anyone outside of the Gulf States, and good luck trying to sell anything derived from American technology like the UH-60, F-2 or AEGIS).

Skywatcher said:

The Japanese might go for building sub-components and co-developed things like the SM-3, apart from selling cargo and seaplanes (frankly, their AFVs aren't that special, the global AShM market is over-saturated, their SSKs are probably too pricey for anyone outside of the Gulf States, and good luck trying to sell anything derived from American technology like the UH-60, F-2 or AEGIS).

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I have to agree with you on most of that, except there latest sub might sell abroad. Japan might also be able to pull.of joint projects partnering development programs.

Skywatcher said:

The Japanese might go for building sub-components and co-developed things like the SM-3, apart from selling cargo and seaplanes (frankly, their AFVs aren't that special, the global AShM market is over-saturated, their SSKs are probably too pricey for anyone outside of the Gulf States, and good luck trying to sell anything derived from American technology like the UH-60, F-2 or AEGIS).

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Oh, I think if the market opened up and they decided to do it, they could do fairly well.

They could build cheaper aircraft (in this case versions they would not use themselves). They could build smart munitions of several types. They could build frigates and patrol craft. Their smaller Sumi Class LPHs would make a good vessel for smaller nations who cannot afford (and don't need) anything as advanced or large as a Tarawa, America, or even San Antonio class.

I do believe they could, like the Germans, build an export version of their SSKs.

No way are they going to sell anything based on US technology that was sold to them like AEGIS, Standard Missiles, Sea/Blackhawks, etc., etc. However, they can build other helos, and perhaps market their own 3-D APAR radar they are already producing for the Akizuki DDGs and Hyuga DDHs.

Anyhow, lots of possibilities if they can make the price point right. And that's the kicker. Time will tell.

Jeff Head said:

Oh, I think if the market opened up and they decided to do it, they could do fairly well.

They could build cheaper aircraft (in this case versions they would not use themselves). They could build smart munitions of several types. They could build frigates and patrol craft. Their smaller Sumi Class LPHs would make a good vessel for smaller nations who cannot afford (and don't need) anything as advanced or large as a Tarawa, America, or even San Antonio class.

I do believe they could, like the Germans, build an export version of their SSKs.

No way are they going to sell anything based on US technology that was sold to them like AEGIS, Standard Missiles, Sea/Blackhawks, etc., etc. However, they can build other helos, and perhaps market their own 3-D APAR radar they are already producing for the Akizuki DDGs and Hyuga DDHs.

Anyhow, lots of possibilities if they can make the price point right. And that's the kicker. Time will tell.

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The US can sink Japanese ambitions into the market if it got even a nugget of US components, unless no US companies directly competing in that bid; though given the economy these days it's better to operate as a consortium, and Japan is a primary participant and stakeholder.

In any case, it'd be interesting as to how far the Japanese can go with the Turkey and India...though something tells me with India it'd only end in madness. Turkey is the better end.

MwRYum said:

The US can sink Japanese ambitions into the market if it got even a nugget of US components, unless no US companies directly competing in that bid; though given the economy these days it's better to operate as a consortium, and Japan is a primary participant and stakeholder.

In any case, it'd be interesting as to how far the Japanese can go with the Turkey and India...though something tells me with India it'd only end in madness. Turkey is the better end.

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remember although the US Defense industry operates widely there are some products they don't make or can't sell. The USN does not use AIP systems for example so none of here contractors have any for offer. That means a opening in that area Japan would be competing against Germany, france, Norway, and Russia. The last American SSK was Babel class back in the days when cars were Marilyn Monroe on the front and a jet fighter in the back. Right now Australia is in the market for a new sub to replace her Collins class.
although the US could pull that loophole, there are two reasons I suspect they would not.
one)
given the Japanese no go attitude of the not so distant past. I would bet that the Japanese ministry of foreign affairs would heavily vet any possible export partner before making a bid, that would eliminate a lot of possible US protest. It will also limit possible costomers, for example given current events in the middle east I suspect Japanese might be wary of a Turkish deal. After all its just about nose deep in the proverbial [fill in the blank] pile of the Syrian civil war.
Two
I suspect there will still be products Japan will not sell vs those Americans are willing to. The USA does not offer a lot of things it uses for sale. So although fighters the US covers, the US will not sell Raptor, the Japanese are working of a twin engine fighter concept that may be a "Japanese Raptor" that may be a opening albeit a limited one.

Japan to tap civilian technology for military use

TOKYO — Japan is finalizing a budget for a new command center for cutting-edge research modeled after the U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) to try to tap a broad swathe of civilian technologies with potential military uses.

The planned research program is another symbol of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s push to bolster Japan’s military as he seeks to make it less bound by the limits of the pacifist postwar constitution.

Besides raising defense spending modestly after years of declines, Abe is seeking to ease Japan’s self-imposed ban on weapons exports and revise an interpretation of the constitution that prohibits the country from militarily aiding an ally under attack.

Funding is not yet decided, but it will likely pale in comparison to the annual $2.8 billion for DARPA, an agency best known for helping create the Internet. DARPA aims to “prevent strategic surprise” by American’s enemies and “create strategic surprise for U.S. adversaries.”

Japan’s Cabinet Office, which will oversee the program, is negotiating with the Finance Ministry on the scale of the funding, government officials familiar with the process told Reuters. It will be included in a draft budget for the fiscal year from April, which will be approved by Abe’s cabinet in late December...... to read more

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If you thought about Gundam you many not be too far with the 360° full surround projection monitor system Japan had already developed for recreational and driving safety usage.