Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

If a product can fulfill its missions required for it, then it is effective, agreed.

However, one must also consider the capability of similarly sized products to determine whether it is "competitive," a purely academic view.
Competitive though, how?

If the 19DDH is meant to protect vessels like the Hyuga and the Atago from mid-range air to surface attacks, I believe it will fulfill that role as well as, if not better than the other vessels mentioned.

If it is to defend those same vessels against submarine threats, I believe the same is the case.

Take it out of its role and go to long range air defense, or to land attack, and the others, which were designed to do those tasks will fair better.

I believe in the anti-surface role "ship to ship" they are going to be about even. They will have the same numbers of anti-ship weapons, coming in as sea skimmers, so their mid range and short range defenses are really what will be effective, and they are, or can be, similarly armed there, except the 19DDH has two Phalanx 20mm CIWS.

Anyhow...we have certainly beat it to death, LOL! The new Hobarts are going to be very effective at what they do. Same is true currently for the Bazans. The Akizuki, though designed for a different role (with some overlap as we have discussed), will also be effective in their roles.

I do wish the JMSDF would build larger numbers of their classes like they did with the Murasame. Though, in reality, I have to say, the Murasami, Takanami, and Akizuki could all be called Murasami, Murasmi II and Murasami III in reality because they took the same basic hull and have tweked them a little better each time. What you really have are 18 Mursami and improved Murasami vessels.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Back when the 054A's VLS photos was first shown, some speculated that it's 16 cells VS 32 cells. I think we beat that debate to death 3 times over on the forum.

With quad-packed missiles, ships was fewer VLS cells can now carry large numbers of SRSAM and MRSAM. A single 8-cell VLS armed with quad-packed ESSM, will provide just as many MRSAM for local area AD as a 054A with 32 cells HQ-16.

Similarly, where the Crotale or HQ-7 system is equipped with 8 ready to fire rounds, modern systems like RAM and HQ-10 can provide up to 24 missiles (3x) on ready to fire station & taking about the same amount of deck space.

If we must point fingers at a modern warship for being under-armed in number of missiles, I'd point to the FREMM with 32 VLS cells. It has similar tonnage to the Akizuki, but not equipped with quad-packed SAM -- the Aster-15 is not quad packed and no customer has ordered the quad-packed Crotale VL missiles.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Here is something interesting if not somewhat bizarre research TRDI is doing.

Flexible radar antenna.

1310_1_img1.jpg

Conventional radar transmitting antenna consists of a flat surface therefore space was specially situated to fit the flat surface.
TRDI is doing research if they can bend the antenna surface and still achieve a clear radar transmission. With this unconventional antenna they can apply it directly on the surface of the plane not needing to create a special room to place the flat antenna saving space for more equipment and also covering more sides to gain a full 360 degree radar view.

Original article can be found
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.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Sensor skin. The idea has been floated as part of sixth Gen fighters and perhaps even a future upgrade of fifth gens. There is the question of how economical it is to replace a whole wing for a single fault.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Another interesting document of the entire JSDF.

Japan FY 2014 defense budget summary in English
It's a rather long breathed document detailed across all three arms.

It's an interesting read if you have the time.

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By the way if JMSDF ever decides to place F-35B on JS Izumo, you'll find information on this kind of document under training in which they will make a requisition for training of fixed wing jet fighter pilots since there are no fighter pilots within JMSDF personnel.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

With quad-packed missiles, ships was fewer VLS cells can now carry large numbers of SRSAM and MRSAM. A single 8-cell VLS armed with quad-packed ESSM, will provide just as many MRSAM for local area AD as a 054A with 32 cells HQ-16.

the FREMM with 32 VLS cells. It has similar tonnage to the Akizuki, but not equipped with quad-packed SAM -- the Aster-15 is not quad packed and no customer has ordered the quad-packed Crotale VL missiles.
Exactly.

Load up a Akizuki with 8 VL-ASROC and 24 quad ESSM and she has 92 very strong MR missiles. Even with 16 VL-ASROC and 16 quad ESSM, she has 64 very good MR missiles. 30 nautical mile max range, 1500 meter minimum range, Mach 4+ speed, sea skimming to high altitude.

Now, the Hobart and Bazen with 48 Mk-41 cells can have a very good mix of both Std and ESSM, but the FREMM, Hoizon, and even the Daring class have a more limited number of anti-air missiles, unless they start quad packing Sea Cepters in their Sylver cells...which none of them have done yet, or even purchased the Sea Cepters to my knowledge.
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Sylver Cells VLS can't use ESSM quad-packed.

the SYLVER’s cells are only 22 inches wide, 3 inches less than the MK41’s.

A great files :

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I think interesting create one thread on lauching systems and especialy VLS.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

The MBDA flier for CAMM/Sea Ceptor claims:

"Sea Ceptor will operate from the SYLVER and Mk41 launchers using a quad-pack configuration
to maximise packing density or for smaller ships, various flexible canister configurations are
available"

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I believe this means the Sea Ceptor can be quad-packed in Sylver VLS cells, as well as Sea Wolf VLS and Mk.41 VLS systems. However for specific Sea Ceptor VLS canisters, I believe it's 1 missile per VLS.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Japan's ATD-X/F-3 Stealth Fighter development, News, Pics, & Videos

This thread is all about the Japanese proposed ATD-X advanced technology demonstrator stealth fighter, and the follow on F-3 Stealth fighter design. Please post any credible news, pictures or videos involving the development of these aircraft here for discussions.

Here's a couple of articles to start:

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Military Factory said:
Japan is in the process of developing an indigenous 5th Generation Fighter concept under the ATD-X "Shinshin" designation. The initiative is branded under the Mitsubishi Heavy Industry label - who also produces the Lockheed F-16 Fighting Falcon locally - and headed by the Japanese Ministry of Defense Technical Research and Development Institute (abbreviated as "TRDI"). The ATD-X is a concept demonstrator-only design and not intended for formal serial production of a 5th Generation Fighter. However, any data collected during its testing would most certainly be used in a future 5th Gen attempt. The ATD-X program, like other 5th Gen initiatives worldwide, is, of course, at the mercy of defense funding by the Japanese government. As such, the program may not expand beyond the paper stage or may meet its scheduled first flight in 2014. This may prove highly optimistic and a first flight of 2015 is more likely.

The ATD-X initiative was born from the rebuffed attempt by the Japanese to procure the advanced F-22 Raptor from the US government.

The preliminary Shinshin concept envisions a faceted airframe in the mold begun by the American Lockheed F-22 Raptor air dominance fighter. The design positions a powerful Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) scanning radar system under a nose cone assembly ahead of the cockpit in the usual way. The fuselage is well-blended into the wings while sharp angles are specially used throughout. Assuming a twin engine design, the ATD-X will sport twin rectangular intakes to either side of the cockpit. Wings will include main appendages and tailplanes as normal with outward-canted vertical tail fins at the rear. The engines will exhaust through specially-designed low-profile, low-signature exhaust ports (thrust vectoring is envisioned) under and between each rudder. Unlike 4th Generation Fighters relying on fly-by-wire control, the ATD-X is slated for the newer, speedier fly-by-optics control system. Also intended for the ATD-X demonstrator is an onboard self-repair facility which will be able to detect and, to the best of its ability, diagnose and repair failed/failing control systems. The undercarriage will be wholly retractable. In keeping with the low-signature, low-profile nature of 5th Gen Fighters, the Shinshin will be developed with an internal weapons bay, radar absorbing coatings for its skin and advanced technologies throughout.

In addition to the airframe, engines remain the other half of the 5th Generation Fighter challenge and this challenge has been handed to Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries (IHI) for possible development and production of new powerplant (IHI XF5-1 turbofans) with up to 20,000lbs thrust. It is assumed that, like the groundbreaking F-22, the ATD-X will feature "supercruise" support which allows for reaching supersonic flight without use of thirsty (and missile-guiding) afterburner.

A mockup of the ATD-X was unveiled in 2005 while a compact remote-controlled demonstrator mimicking the expected Shinshin design was tested in 2006. The project was authorized with proper funding in 2007. Should the ATD-X program yield an indigenous Japanese 5th Gen development, the upcoming production series aircraft will be given the designation of Mitsubishi F-3 in following the F-2 (F-16) and the original Cold War-era F-1.

As it stands (2013), the ATD-X is expected to have a running length of 46.5 feet, a wingspan of 30 feet and an overall height of 14.8 feet. Maximum take-off weight is estimated at 28,660lbs. Projected straight-line speeds reach Mach 2.

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japanese-f3-shoot-down-chinese-j20-stealth-fighter-03-600x425.jpg


Aviation Week said:
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is already building a small airframe technology demonstrator, the ATD-X Shinshin, which the ministry expects to test in the fiscal year beginning April 1, 2014. Mitsubishi Heavy is also very likely to build the F-3, which Japanese officials expect will carry a pilot.

IHI Corp. is to develop a technology-demonstrator engine of 15 metric tons (33,000 lb.) thrust, according to an official document seen by Aviation Week.

Full-scale development would begin in 2016 or 2017 and the first prototype would fly in 2024-25, according to the ministry's plans. Series production is to begin in 2027 and the type would begin replacing Mitsubishi Heavy Industries F-2 strike fighters in the first half of the 2030s. In the second half of that decade it would begin replacing Boeing F-15Js. The F-15s are older but are likely to remain the mainstay of Japan's air-defense squadrons, with suitable upgrades.

The ministry's plans are evidently firming up, and broadly match a road map for fighter development set out by Japanese industry in 2010. The industry proposal, though, included production of an imported aircraft—now determined to be the F-35—until 2028. While production of the confirmed batch of F-35s, which will replace F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, could not feasibly be stretched until 2028, it is possible that some F-15s could be replaced earlier by additional F-35s before F-3s replace the rest.

The power of the IHI demonstrator engine is surprising. It would generate 50% more thrust than the General Electric F414, two of which power the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The Super Hornet's thrust is not notably high for its empty mass, 14.6 tons (32,100 lb.), but in a twin-engine installation the output of the IHI demonstrator would be abundant for a larger, budget-straining aircraft. It does seem that Japan is looking for a twin aircraft.
 
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