J-35A fighter (PLAAF) + FC-31 thread

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
That's irrelevant. You said it's the ideal shape, which it clearly isn't. And now you are modifying your statement

Be consistent. If you are going to make statements, be complete.

This is what I know. From a good source, J-20A's stealth is on the same level as F-35 from front and side. Given that J-35A's material, production quality and heat management is mostly to be on the same level as J-20A,
That's not necessarily so, J-35 is newer by quite a bit than both J-20 and F-35.
the only major difference you can really point to is the presence of canards on J-20A and lack of that on J-35.
It's an overall smaller fighter too.
In the complex battlefield that we are likely to see, this is not really going to be that big of a deal.

No, you are the one that said J-35A is the textbook perfect fighter shaping, when it clearly isn't. Anyone that starts with a statement like that deserves to be rebuked.
I don't find it that implausible that J-35 can be stealthier than J-20. J-20 enjoys a lot of prestige because it was for its time (and still is) some of the best air performance mated with stealth and sensors. Much like how F-22 was when it was first inducted. Both F-22 and J-20 gained reputations like a holy cow that some will claim can't be surpassed by other aircraft. But this isn't a realistic assessment and just something based on feels.

Shenyang which possess even the competence to make a 6th gen fighter (ranking them first or second most advanced aircraft designer globally) can defintely also make a project that rivals J-20 in stealth. When two planes rival eachother, there logically has to be a winner and a loser. I don't think we can say with 100% certainty that J-35 is the loser.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's not necessarily so, J-35 is newer by quite a bit than both J-20 and F-35.
It is newer to get PLA color, but not newer in the R&D process. FC-31 appeared only one year later than J-20, they started from the same time.

A very important thing in R&D is that you don't keep inserting newer tech once you have settled your system design. Otherwise you will never get the product finished. An example is that the manufacturing method of F-35 was settled well before the first prototype flown. The same is true to J-20 and FC-31 meaning both are on the same level from the start.

Transition from FC-31 to J-35 took the full time of J-20's development, so one can argue that J-35 incoperated lots of techs that were not available in early 2010s, but so is J-20A. The kind of change of engine and fuselage demands rebalance the whole aircraft that leads to change in construction etc. It is a new aircraft from inside from manufacturing perspective. It would be stupid to retain the production methods of more than 10 years ago.

Besides, SAC and CAC are the same company like VW and Audi. Passat and Audi A4 are built on the same chassi with same machinary and updated every year with same tech. They are only different in options and the shape. There is no reason to believe that AVIC won't do the same continious upgrading to PLAAF's number 1 bird, especially in a brand new variant.
 

00CuriousObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
This paragrah "对于歼-35,用户提出了更高的隐身指标" (customer demanded higher requirement for stealth on J-35) is very much dependent on context. Higher can be "higher than J-20's current level" or "higher than a reference specification". That reference may or may not be J-20, it can be F-35 or just a RCS figure. Words like "higher, better" are meaniningless without a reference point, as in "higher than what".


Just have to say that I don't have more confident to him or anyone unless I know they truely have access to SAC/CAC/PLA R&D program.


"amongst the first in the world" means it is among others. If J-20 (and F-22) are not the others who else can be? If J-35 is so outstanding from others it would not have been called amongst.

So far all such claims are IMO made based on very stretchy interpretation of very contextual sentences, far below my standard of admitting as a proof. But that is me.

It's not definitive proof. It's reasons for suspicion.

Sure, the claims may have "stretchy interpretations" depending on how you wanna argue, but at least they exist. And afaik these claims don't exist in a similar fashion about the J-20 (but maybe they do and I'm just not unaware)
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's not definitive proof. It's reasons for suspicion.

Sure, the claims may have "stretchy interpretations" depending on how you wanna argue, but at least they exist. And afaik these claims don't exist in a similar fashion about the J-20 (but maybe they do and I'm just not unaware)
In general J-20 always had a lower key in PR than J-35. For example, nobody knew J-20's induction date untill some time later, but the date of J-35 is already talked even before it is seen in PLA. Unless PLA has changed behavior, I tend to believe that the less talked about the more important.
 

Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's irrelevant.
Sure it is lol. Comparing something in service to something in early development is totally more relevant to the topic, right?

You said it's the ideal shape, which it clearly isn't.
In terms of 5th Gen fighters that are actually in service rather than a next generation prototype, yeah. It clearly is, and I've already said why. Prove otherwise.

And now you are modifying your statement
Because I never expected someone to be this disingenuous to compare a 6th Gen prototype to existing 5th Gens, but here we are. This is childish.

Be consistent. If you are going to make statements, be complete.
Sorry (I'm not) I didn't expect someone to produce such childish and ridiculous comparisons.

From a good source, J-20A's stealth is on the same level as F-35 from front and side.
Believable.

the only major difference you can really point to is the presence of canards on J-20A and lack of that on J-35.
And the smaller size, which inherently gives you a smaller RCS. And also the strakes (they may be made from composites, but the parts that connect them to the fuselage aren't). And the smaller actuators. All these pile up, and in the end the margin between the two will be noticeable.

No matter how you try, conventional wings in equal circumstances are inherently stealthier.

In the complex battlefield that we are likely to see, this is not really going to be that big of a deal.
Why strive for the smallest RCS then? Guess the Su-57 approach is the best, eh?

No, you are the one that said J-35A is the textbook perfect fighter shaping
It is, in terms of existing 5th Gens.

when it clearly isn't.
Go on, prove otherwise. You better actually pull up an actual good argument unlike using a next generation prototype which is largely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Anyone that starts with a statement like that deserves to be rebuked.
You stand there and tell me that while using the J-36 as an argument? The absolute audacity lmao. The J-20 is inherently less stealthier than the J-35A, period.

"amongst the first in the world" means it is among others. If J-20 (and F-22) are not the others who else can be? If J-35 is so outstanding from others it would not have been called amongst.
The original text says "the J-35A's stealth capabilities are ranked top 1 of the world." No amongst.

It is newer to get PLA color, but not newer in the R&D process. FC-31 appeared only one year later than J-20, they started from the same time.
Not really. The FC-31 that flew at 2012 is significantly different to the J-35/A that we see today. Majority of the changes and refinement happened after it was adopted by the PLAN, which happened much later.

To illustrate this, the J-20 prototype 2011 flew during 2014, but the J-35 (not even A)'s equivalent, 3501 prototype flew during 2021.

It is a new aircraft from inside from manufacturing perspective. It would be stupid to retain the production methods of more than 10 years ago
We unfortunately don't have definitive proof of such, just like how the J-35A doesn't have definitive proof that it's stealthier than the J-20, but at least the J-35A has official statement going for it. In fact, I don't think I've heard even rumours that the J-20A will incorporate the J-35A's extensive degree of additive manufacturing other than "they must."
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Sure it is lol. Comparing something in service to something in early development is totally more relevant to the topic, right?


In terms of 5th Gen fighters that are actually in service rather than a next generation prototype, yeah. It clearly is, and I've already said why. Prove otherwise.


Because I never expected someone to be this disingenuous to compare a 6th Gen prototype to existing 5th Gens, but here we are. This is childish.


Sorry (I'm not) I didn't expect someone to produce such childish and ridiculous comparisons.


Believable.


And the smaller size, which inherently gives you a smaller RCS. And also the strakes (they may be made from composites, but the parts that connect them to the fuselage aren't). And the smaller actuators. All these pile up, and in the end the margin between the two will be noticeable.

No matter how you try, conventional wings in equal circumstances are inherently stealthier.


Why strive for the smallest RCS then? Guess the Su-57 approach is the best, eh?


It is, in terms of existing 5th Gens.
When you make a comment on this forum, do it precisely. Don't give me this BS that you meant by in service fighter, when the concept of perfect stealth fighter shaping is hopeless diamond IIIRC. If you think it has the best stealth shaping among 5th generation aircraft, just say that.

I think it's a fair argument to say that you think J-35A is better shaped for stealth than J-20A.

It is also fair to say that the difference is small enough where it doesn't matter all that much in a complex EM environment.

Do not attribute more capabilities to an aircraft than it has.
 

Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Don't give me this BS that you meant by in service fighter,
BS? Take a listen to what you're saying. That's BS. Get off that high horse of yours and stay grounded.

This exchange is going nowhere unfortunately, and the worst thing is that this isn't the first time it has happened. I sincerely hope that this is the last time and that I wouldn't need to correct you again on how to view the J-35A and it's role in the PLA ecosystem.

I also do NOT see the relevancy of bringing the J-36 into this discussion other than being a petty semantic "own." It's pointless and gets us nowhere, and therefore to avoid straying further off-topic, this ends here.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
BS? Take a listen to what you're saying. That's BS. Get off that high horse of yours and stay grounded.

This exchange is going nowhere unfortunately, and the worst thing is that this isn't the first time it has happened. I sincerely hope that this is the last time and that I wouldn't need to correct you again on how to view the J-35A and it's role in the PLA ecosystem.

I also do NOT see the relevancy of bringing the J-36 into this discussion other than being a petty semantic "own." It's pointless and gets us nowhere, and therefore to avoid straying further off-topic, this ends here.

This is a large forum with different view points. If you cannot handle getting challenged on your view point, then you do not have to respond at all.
 
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