J-35A fighter (PLAAF) + FC-31 thread

[HardBall]

It isn't surprise at all. J-20's projected price is slightly higher than Su-27/J-11 at the time of program start. So J-35A has to be a lot cheapper to be worth the effort.

A good part of the rationale, but not completely.

Other big would be to increase production rates of LO fighters at multiple sites. And also allow multiple enterprises to accumulate experience in productionizing current gen platforms.

The most important reason, for the near to medium term, would actually to increase the numbers and availability of stealth platforms. If you have 140-180 airframes of 5th per year, it would be far faster to equip the bulk of PLAAF with latest fighters, than with J-20 alone.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Apparently J-35A, together with J-20A/B, will also take the brunt of load to hold expected much higher mini-NGAD mass.

Before 2024 it was rather straightforward, outdoing f-35 in a2a and cca control for basic air superiority.

Now it's mini-NGAD on top of F-35, which will likely aim to provide matching air superiority mass.

Big responsibility. Bigger than before.

 

[SinoAmericanCW]

Apparently J-35A, together with J-20A/B, will also take the brunt of load to hold expected much higher mini-NGAD mass.

Before 2024 it was rather straightforward, outdoing f-35 in a2a and cca control for basic air superiority.

Now it's mini-NGAD on top of F-35, which will likely aim to provide matching air superiority mass.

Big responsibility. Bigger than before.

My apologies if I'm not up to date, but what is "mini-NGAD"?

Is it the incipient reevaluated NGAD program? If so, wouldn't the USAF only be able to field that aircraft, at best, simultaneously as China's J-36/SHENGAD?

 

[tphuang]

Apparently J-35A, together with J-20A/B, will also take the brunt of load to hold expected much higher mini-NGAD mass.

Before 2024 it was rather straightforward, outdoing f-35 in a2a and cca control for basic air superiority.

Now it's mini-NGAD on top of F-35, which will likely aim to provide matching air superiority mass.

Big responsibility. Bigger than before.

Sorry, it’s not too clear what you are saying here. What do you mean by holding expected much higher mini-NGAD mass?

 

[xiamikentudou]

For certain export customers who won't get the F35 anyway, maybe a "F35 copy" is a plus, not a minus.对于那些无论如何都拿不到 F35 的某些出口客户来说，或许一款“F35 复制品”是加分

J is the first letter of jian, which means annihilation,J35 is responsible for meeting and annihilating F35 at sea

 

[GiantPanda]

Sorry, it’s not too clear what you are saying here. What do you mean by holding expected much higher mini-NGAD mass?

No idea what he is talking about unless it is one of those copium ideas on Reddit or X.

The fact of the matter is the USAF punted on the current NGAD designs and wanted a re-assessment because the thing was projected to be three times the cost of the already massively expensive F-35.

There is no NGAD -- mini, maxi or whatever -- right now until a new decision:

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[GiantPanda]

BTW, this torrent of "NGAD was first. US already flown NGAD. Etc." made in desperate responses to the new CAC and SAC aircraft is absolutely hilarious when NGAD is so mind-numbingly expensive that it might be a still-born:

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The initial projection is $300M per plane.

 

[antwerpery]

No idea what he is talking about unless it is one of those copium ideas on Reddit or X.

The fact of the matter is the USAF punted on the current NGAD designs and wanted a re-assessment because the thing was projected to be three times the cost of the already massively expensive F-35.

There is no NGAD -- mini, maxi or whatever -- right now until a new decision:

I also want to add that the Musk administration doesn't seem to hold fighters and manned fighters in high regard, so while they probably won't cancel the NGAD, there's a good chance of lowered budgets and the program put on hold for another year while the Air force and Musk duke it out.

Also, the US navy's 6th gen fighter is also having issues.

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The Navy’s fiscal 2025 budget reduced planned funding for the F/A-XX program by 67%, from $10.3 billion to $3.3 billion over four years. Senate appropriators proposed restoring $450 million, yet the funding still represents a 59% reduction compared to earlier plans. These financial adjustments may affect the development timeline, including the Navy’s goal of achieving a Milestone B decision for the engineering and manufacturing development phase by the end of fiscal 2025.

I don't think that you can develop even a 5th gen fighter with that kind of money. So there's a good chance that their 6th gen fighter is just gonna look like 5.5th gen instead.

 

[GiantPanda]

If you look at the costs of these American programs F-35, NGAD, Columbia ($15B for first boat, $130B for program), etc. you are seeing the reverse of the Cold War where the US spent the USSR to bankruptcy.

The J-20, J-35, the new 6th gens, Type 076, Type 095, Type 096, Type 055 and the coming Type 004/005 will each elicit immensely expensive responses from the US because their capabilities will demand it.

 

[antwerpery]

If you look at the costs of these American programs F-35, NGAD, Columbia ($15B for first boat, $130B for program), etc. you are seeing the reverse of the Cold War where the US spent the USSR to bankruptcy.

The J-20, J-35, the new 6th gens, Type 076, Type 095, Type 096, Type 055 and the coming Type 004/005 will each elicit immensely expensive responses from the US because their capabilities will demand it.

I will add on that excess military spending usually bankrupts nations because usually military investments tend to yield a much lower economical return than other ways of spending money. This quote from Eisenhower says it well

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron

The difference is that China has tons of brand new infrastructure, while America's infrastructure is old and in dire need of updates. Also China has really leaned into military/civilian fusion, so that both support the other. Major examples would be how the navy can piggyback off commercial chinese shipyards, how commercial drones are both a extremely good civilian tool- and an extremely deadly weapon and the how commercial Chinese aviation benefits from the military's research into engines, avionics and materials. Also, chinese companies don't demand a insane markup compared to America's corrupt MIC.