J-35 carrier fighter (PLAN) thread

[THX 1138]

I don't get how you came to the conclusion that the J-35 will have a much worse empty mass fraction when it uses much more advanced materials and construction than the J-15. The J-35 uses modern composite materials and additive manufactured parts.

5th gen fighters carry internal bays that previous generation fighters didn't. So I believe their air frames are carrying extra weight compared to 4th gen fighters. For example, the F-35C empty weight is 1 ton more than that of the F/A-18E.

An F-35C carrying 1.5 ton internal armaments and a full tank of fuel weighs about 26 tons. I think that was a reasonable starting point for my rough estimate for the J-35, which also carries 2 engines instead of 1.

The MiG-29K can takeoff the Admiral Kuznetsov so I don't get why you think the J-35, with more advanced airframe and more powerful engines, wouldn't be able to takeoff

I was probably too vague in what I originally wrote. I didn't mean to imply that the J-35 wouldn't be able to launch from a ski jump at all. I just meant that the J-35 may require stricter conditions for a safe launch than a J-15 would, such as friendlier tailwinds and using the longer runway.

 

[pipaster]

What makes you think it is behind?

Because there will be a lot of tasks still needing to be done to certify the project, and these will in some part have to conflict with the trials 003 will need to undertake as well.

It is not that SAC/PLANAF is behind, they just don't have the resources at this time. I.E. to test a CATOBAR aircraft fully you need an aircraft carrier that has a catapult. So naturally you will not put the same resources into a project, compared to the J-20. Even if you thought the J-35 project was more important.

 

[taxiya]

Because there will be a lot of tasks still needing to be done to certify the project, and these will in some part have to conflict with the trials 003 will need to undertake as well.

It is not that SAC/PLANAF is behind, they just don't have the resources at this time. I.E. to test a CATOBAR aircraft fully you need an aircraft carrier that has a catapult. So naturally you will not put the same resources into a project, compared to the J-20. Even if you thought the J-35 project was more important.

The question is why you think it is behind, behind of what. What you just suggested here is J-35 has an extra phase in development (a working CV) than J-20. That only means some extra work, longer time which is not the same thing as behind. It is not appropriate to compare length of time of two different programs containing different steps. It is like comparing who is faster, 100m sprint runner or 200m sprint runner.

I am not so sure about your notion of "testing a CATOBAR aircraft fully needs a CV with catapult", is that how F-35, F-18 and F-15 were done? Of course without launching from a real CV, nothing can be 100% sure, but I think it is more for verifying the catapult, not really the aircraft which a landbased facility can get the aircraft to say 90% ready.

 

[Blitzo]

Because there will be a lot of tasks still needing to be done to certify the project, and these will in some part have to conflict with the trials 003 will need to undertake as well.

It is not that SAC/PLANAF is behind, they just don't have the resources at this time. I.E. to test a CATOBAR aircraft fully you need an aircraft carrier that has a catapult. So naturally you will not put the same resources into a project, compared to the J-20. Even if you thought the J-35 project was more important.

Here you've explained why the development of J-XY/35 is still going to take time (after all, no one is saying that J-XY/35's development right now is complete).

However I was asking why you think it is "behind".
The word "behind," which you used, implied that there is a timespan in which its development is expected to be at, but that you think it will take longer or be slower than than expected.

 

[Aswin_hht]

Can someone tell my why China is investing in a medium weight 5th gen for their navy while they had almost exclusively focused on heavy fighters in every other aspect? What advantages does it give against a naval fighter derived from J-20? They neither possess tremendous experience in carrier based operations nor do they regularly project their power beyond their border, wouldn't it be better for them to choose a fighter than can fly much further and operate so that the carrier group can remain in safer waters?

 

[Rafi]

Can someone tell my why China is investing in a medium weight 5th gen for their navy while they had almost exclusively focused on heavy fighters in every other aspect? What advantages does it give against a naval fighter derived from J-20? They neither possess tremendous experience in carrier based operations nor do they regularly project their power beyond their border, wouldn't it be better for them to choose a fighter than can fly much further and operate so that the carrier group can remain in safer waters?

It impresses the chicks.

 

[gelgoog]

Can someone tell my why China is investing in a medium weight 5th gen for their navy while they had almost exclusively focused on heavy fighters in every other aspect? What advantages does it give against a naval fighter derived from J-20? They neither possess tremendous experience in carrier based operations nor do they regularly project their power beyond their border, wouldn't it be better for them to choose a fighter than can fly much further and operate so that the carrier group can remain in safer waters?

It means you can have more aircraft in the same space. And given that Chinese carriers thus far are smaller than US supercarriers this might make a difference. The WS-19 engine is also supposed to have roughly the same thrust as the WS-10 i.e. 120 kN. So roughly the same power level as a J-15 but less than the J-20.

As for the range, or lack of it, we certainly do not know what it will be. It will have more advanced engines than the J-15 eventually. And the hump behind the pilot is probably a fuel tank.

 

[Aswin_hht]

It means you can have more aircraft in the same space. And given that Chinese carriers thus far are smaller than US supercarriers this might make a difference.

As for the range, or lack of it, we certainly do not know what it will be. It will have more advanced engines than the J-15 eventually. And the hump behind the pilot is probably a fuel tank.

Okay that does makes sense. Aircrafts available in larger number could always be an advantage. Since WS-19 is a new engine it could be more efficient one.
Maybe they are thinking that the J-15B could take up the role of a missile truck when needed. Btw, do we know the exact displacement for fujian carrier? How many J-35s can it hold approximately?

 

[THX 1138]

Can someone tell my why China is investing in a medium weight 5th gen for their navy while they had almost exclusively focused on heavy fighters in every other aspect?

The J-15, Su-33, and F-14 were anomalies. Most carrier-based combat aircraft are medium weight.

 

[gelgoog]

The F-14 was designed to be able to engage Soviet bombers with cruise missiles which could attack US carrier groups at long distances.
But even so, back when the F-14 was designed the US carriers were also meant to carry other aircraft including the F/A-18 in a high-low configuration.