J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

Here is a "VERY rough" draft of Infra_Man99's jet fighter:
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When you open the link, you can enlarge the picture by clicking a button that looks like a small magnifying glass with a plus sign. The button is located near the picture's lower, right-hand corner.

Please remember this is only a rough draft. The jet's proportions and outline are NOT exact or perfect. My main interest was creating a jet fighter with a flat body for lift (4 small engines), a triangular top and bottom for stealth (small triangular nacelles, triangular intake, and triangular internal weapons bay), delta wing for low wing loading and speed, canards for agility, large internal fuel space, and enough internal space to cram in four MRAAM and two SRAAM.

Do you guys think my jet fighter is a cartoon or does it have actual potential?
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

Here is a "VERY rough" draft of Infra_Man99's jet fighter:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

When you open the link, you can enlarge the picture by clicking a button that looks like a small magnifying glass with a plus sign. The button is located near the picture's lower, right-hand corner.

Please remember this is only a rough draft. The jet's proportions and outline are NOT exact or perfect. My main interest was creating a jet fighter with a flat body for lift (4 small engines), a triangular top and bottom for stealth (small triangular nacelles, triangular intake, and triangular internal weapons bay), delta wing for low wing loading and speed, canards for agility, large internal fuel space, and enough internal space to cram in four MRAAM and two SRAAM.

Do you guys think my jet fighter is a cartoon or does it have actual potential?
I think you underestimate how much space a turbofan takes...
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: New Generation Fighter

Here is a "VERY rough" draft of Infra_Man99's jet fighter:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

When you open the link, you can enlarge the picture by clicking a button that looks like a small magnifying glass with a plus sign. The button is located near the picture's lower, right-hand corner.

Please remember this is only a rough draft. The jet's proportions and outline are NOT exact or perfect. My main interest was creating a jet fighter with a flat body for lift (4 small engines), a triangular top and bottom for stealth (small triangular nacelles, triangular intake, and triangular internal weapons bay), delta wing for low wing loading and speed, canards for agility, large internal fuel space, and enough internal space to cram in four MRAAM and two SRAAM.

Do you guys think my jet fighter is a cartoon or does it have actual potential?

Looks workable. Having 4 smaller engines in place of 2 larger engines would actually decrease slightly the thrust to weight ratio of the aircraft because of the mounting involved, but it's a small price to pay for improved stealth and for the fact that there're more engines to back up each other. The improvement in the aerodynamic performance may even compensate for the slight decrease in T/W ratio. Whether it's really workable or practical is another story.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

Looks workable. Having 4 smaller engines in place of 2 larger engines would actually decrease slightly the thrust to weight ratio of the aircraft because of the mounting involved, but it's a small price to pay for improved stealth and for the fact that there're more engines to back up each other. The improvement in the aerodynamic performance may even compensate for the slight decrease in T/W ratio. Whether it's really workable or practical is another story.
If you halve the mass of the engine you don't halve the diameter of it, which means that structurally you're either going to get a wider plane, or a bigger one overall.

At the same time, the aerodynamic gains would mainly be in stability and efficiency and potentially top speed, and may in fact penalize maneuverability. These would all be more suitable tradeoffs for a bomber than for a fighter...

Redundancy of engines only works if one engine is enough to keep the plane going. I don't know enough to know whether a 15,000 lbs of thrust is enough to keep a heavy weight fighter in the air.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: New Generation Fighter

If you halve the mass of the engine you don't halve the diameter of it, which means that structurally you're either going to get a wider plane, or a bigger one overall.

At the same time, the aerodynamic gains would mainly be in stability and efficiency and potentially top speed, and may in fact penalize maneuverability. These would all be more suitable tradeoffs for a bomber than for a fighter...

Redundancy of engines only works if one engine is enough to keep the plane going. I don't know enough to know whether a 15,000 lbs of thrust is enough to keep a heavy weight fighter in the air.

The fighter could possibly fly with one or even two engines downed, but I can see the problem of 2 working engines being too far away from the centre of aircraft.

Can't really commend on the rest.
 
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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

Alright, here is a 2 engine version of my jet fighter. Once again, only a rough draft:
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The biggest changes were altering the previous 4 small engines into 2 large engines, and adding the possibility of forward-swept canards and vertical stabilizers.

If you halve the mass of the engine you don't halve the diameter of it, which means that structurally you're either going to get a wider plane, or a bigger one overall.

At the same time, the aerodynamic gains would mainly be in stability and efficiency and potentially top speed, and may in fact penalize maneuverability. These would all be more suitable tradeoffs for a bomber than for a fighter...

Redundancy of engines only works if one engine is enough to keep the plane going. I don't know enough to know whether a 15,000 lbs of thrust is enough to keep a heavy weight fighter in the air.

I don't know about the changing mass of an engine relative to its changing diameter (jet engines are beyond my knowledge), but I do know basic geometry. The volume of an object increases exponentially when the object's surface area increases linearly, or the volume of an object decreases exponentially when the object's surface area decreases linearly.

Depending on various assumptions or scenarios, small engines could be advantageous or disadvantageous against larger engines. Notice how the Eurofighter Typhoon and F/A-18A to D chose 2 small engines over 1 large engine. I am guessing the Europeans and US Navy wanted the redundancy, but even then, they successfully created a high performance, reliable small engine. Good smaller engines have been created for trainer aircrafts (i.e., the Northrop T-38 Talon), missiles, and drones.

A jet with lots of lift from its fuselage is NOT necessarily an attack jet or bomber. The F-14 Tomcat, especially the F-14D Super Tomcat, had no problems with using wings and a pancake fuselage to generate very low wing loadings. From what F-14D pilots told me, the F-14D was a superb BVR fighter jet and a superb VR fighter jet. The F-14A had too many engine problems. The F-14A+, the F-14B, and F-14D got better engines (and other stuff as well). The biggest problem with all F-14 variants was its long history of maintenance and repair problems, because the F-14 (during its creation) incorporated many new, unknown designs. The F-14 arose from the partial failure of the F-111, which was an overly ambitious swing-wing design for both the US air force and US navy. The F-14 was not the first jet fighter to use swing wings, but the F-14's swing wings were much more active and precise throughout the F-14's performance than previous designs. The F-14 was the first American jet to have good BVR and VR combat abilities at various altitudes and velocities (air superiority). It used cutting edge technology for many of its components. To top it off, it had to land and take off from aircraft carriers. It even had a kicka** movie. Highway TOOO the danger zone . . . :D

Redundancy could work as long as more than 1 engine is active and the net total thrust of all active engines is at least adequate. For my 4 engine jet, if 1 engine goes down, the 3 engines has enough thrust to keep the jet flying. The jet should have adequate thrust with only 2 engines. I don't know about 1 active engine. It could be something similar but not exactly like the Voyager: low wing loading matched to a low T:W ratio.

Quickie said:
The fighter could possibly fly with one or even two engines downed, but I can see the problem of 2 working engines being too far away from the centre of aircraft.

The F-14 Tomcat had this minor problem. It's pancake fuselage separated the two engines so much, so it had accurate calibration and management of its 2 widely placed engines to ensure it was flying straight. NASA successfully ran tests on an F-14 with asymmetric thrusts and asymmetric wings (one wing fully forward and the other fully swept back). Some F-14 pilots used asymmetric thrusts to create unique maneuvers. I don't know the effectiveness of such maneuvers. Vectored thrust added into asymmetric thrust and/or widely spaced engines could become advantageous.

The Su-27 and Mig-29 have the same minor problem with widely spaced engines to a lesser extent. The same goes with large airplanes: the Boeing 747, the B-2 Spirit, and the Boeing C-17. Even propeller planes solved problems with 2 widely spaced engines.
 
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tphuang

General
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Re: New Generation Fighter

An article regarding important people like Hu Jintao visiting CAC:
中航工业成都所所长 季晓光 党委书记 戴亚隆


近日,胡 锦 涛总书记、温家宝总理相继考察了中国商用飞机有限责任公司并发表了重要讲话,体现了党中央、国务院对发展中国大飞机事业的高度重视与关心。作为航空系统中的一员,中航工业成都所承担着国家重点型号研制工作,胡总书记、温总理的讲话对于成都所当前在研的国家重点型号任务同样具有极其重要的指导意义。我们要以胡总书记、温总理讲话精神为激励,立足根本,放眼未来,以饱满的热情和激情,以高度的民族自豪感和使命感投身于国防科研工作中,坚决打赢国家重点型号研制攻坚战。

我们承担国家重点型号研制,责任重大,使命光荣,需要钢铁般的意志和百折不挠的精神

“航空报国,强军富民”是我们肩负的光荣历史使命。党和国家领导人多次给予我们极大的关怀和鼓励,也寄予我们极大的期望。上世纪80年代初,邓小平同志就毅然决策:“我们一定要搞一个新的、性能好的歼击机”,而在90年代,江泽民主席也强调:“我们反对实力政策,但必须要有实力,我们一定要有自己的杀手锏。”进入新的世纪,国家对先进武器装备的需求越来越强烈,对武器装备研制的要求也越来越高,“下一步的加速发展就看你们的了。”胡总书记满怀希望地对新机研制做出了重要指示……国家意志“它要体现在我们每个科技人员和工人的辛勤的劳动上”,意志和精神只有转化为实实在在的行动才能产生非凡的创造力和成就。当前,我们承担着国家重点型号研制工作,使命在身,责任在肩,这需要我们成都所的每一个科研人员立足自身岗位,以钢铁般的意志和百折不挠的精神,以攻坚克难、超常拼搏的实际行动去实现我们对祖国、对人民的庄严承诺!

面对技术台阶陡峭,不确定因素众多的困难,我们要发扬科学求实精神,坚持自主创新,做好走艰巨探索之路的准备

“发扬科学求实精神,坚持自主创新,攻坚克难。”这是胡总书记对我们所有航空人的期盼。“要准备走艰巨探索的道路”是温总理对我们所有航空人的嘱托!歼10的研制成功给党和人民交上了一份满意的答卷,我们站在新征程的起点,面对技术跨度大、研制周期短、成本控制严、多型号多任务并举等特点,加之众多不确定因素,这些都对我们提出了前所未有的挑战。为此,我们将做好迎接各种挑战的充分准备,始终坚持自主创新的原则,不断健全研发管理体系,积极探索组织变革,实现资源优化整合,同时,我们将继续发扬“艰苦奋斗,激情进取”的优良传统,发扬“一丝不苟,科学求实”的宝贵精神,确保国家重点型号研制任务的成功完成。

在上级领导的关怀指导下,在全体科研人员的共同努力下,我们有信心研制出世界最好的先进战机

成都所的发展倾注了党、国家、集团党组的厚爱与期盼,在历任所领导的带领下,全所职工努力拼搏,成都所的发展取得了较为瞩目的成绩。成都所目前担当的重点型号是航空工业的兴业之本,是维护和平的制敌之剑,关系着国家利益和国家安全……等不来、要不来、买不来,我们只能“靠我们的智慧”,靠我们勇于创新的精神去完成任务。“飞机的设计反映我们这个民族的智慧,中国人不比任何民族差,我们一定能够设计出世界最先进的飞机。”温总理的这句话给予了我们无限的勇气和信心!打造跨代飞机、引领技术发展、创新研发体系、建设卓越团队,在未来的前进道路上,我们将高举创新大旗,积极进取,不断超越,研制出世界最好的先进战机,让中华民族昂首屹立于世界先进民族之林!

大飞机的研制是国家意志的体现,我们要发挥优势,积极参与,为大飞机研制做出我们的贡献

大飞机寄托了几代人的期盼,是一项庞大而复杂的创新性系统工程,中央将发展大飞机作为一项具有战略意义的重大决策,国务院将其作为我国建设创新型国家的标志性工程。因此,大飞机研制项目需要一支由国家统领的“国家队”群策群力,需要“举全国之力”,为研制工程做好保障,需要与相关的多个技术研发平台共同合作……“顶层式规划,全国化协作”是大飞机研制的必然模式。对于大飞机的研制,成都有着与大飞机制造相关的冶金、电子、机械制造等大型企业,这些企业可提供强有力的产业支撑,同时,成都在飞机设计、生产、试验等各方面有着深厚扎实的基础,在建的民用航空产业国家高技术产业基地将进一步提升成都航空产业的技术实力和发展能力。在大飞机研制的后续工作中,我们要在集团公司的统一组织领导下,努力践行集团公司“两融、三新、五化、万亿”的发展战略,积极参与、密切配合大飞机的研制工作,充分发挥成都地区的区域优势与自身优势,以军机、民机双产业链合力拉动,以产业兴经济,以经济促效能,以科技带动产业集群,将国家重点型号项目和大飞机研制项目作为最好的产业催化剂,利用其产业聚合效能和提速效能,在成都乃至西部高新产业中做出新的更大的贡献。

四海腾跃开云路,九州激扬绘虹桥!在后续工作中,成都所将更进一步贯彻落实胡总书记、温总理的讲话精神,贯彻落实集团公司提出的一系列新思想、新举措,牢记使命,攻坚克难,立足根本,勇于开拓,为实现建设创新型和谐研究所的愿景目标而努力拼搏,为中国早日跻身于世界航空强国而不懈奋斗!
I think Hu Jintao and WenJiabao both made the visit here, so this is a pretty big occasion. It pretty much spelled out that CAC is developing the next generation fighter jet. And it also indicates that they have numerous major project in the works. They are also confident about developing the best fighter jet in the world and so forth.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

is this indicative of how far China's 4th gen project has progressed?Wen said "we can DESIGN the world's best fighter"...so they are still designing?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Not strictly the type in topic, but it was just reported that the Russian PAK-FA (T-50) had its succesful maiden flight.

Pictures will be published in aparently about 10 mintes ......

Deino
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Not strictly the type in topic, but it was just reported that the Russian PAK-FA (T-50) had its succesful maiden flight.

Pictures will be published in aparently about 10 mintes ......

Deino
Awesome :D - maybe a new thread for the PAK FA?

Hopefully the first flight will accelerate the J-XX's development in a way or another.
 
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