J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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maozedong

Banned Idiot
Re: K-8 chase plane

some one taken J-20 video, real taxi test, not only pictures.

[video=youtube;tJDI4OHtzsw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJDI4OHtzsw&feature=player_embedded[/video]

mods note >> mao please embed your videos. I've explained the procedure several times. It is very easy.

bd popeye super moderator
 
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ReneDad

New Member
Hmm this is strange. Newest photos indicate that the J-20 seems to carry taihang engines. Could it be that the two different prototypes use different engines?

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Some witnesses in Chinese forums said that the plane was till No.2001 but the engines had been change.

I think maybe the engines in the previous photos were AL-31s, the most mature engines for testing flight control software. Now software has passed the test, so they get a pair of indigenous engines, which may have higher thrust, on the plane testing their performance and preparing for the maiden flight.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Suddenly, it becomes the news of the day.
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J-20 stealth fighter photos: Did China leak them intentionally?

J-20 stealth fighter photos have appeared on Chinese websites, suggesting that the leaks of images of what could be China's first stealth fighter jet are a calculated moved by the traditionally secretive People's Liberation Army.

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By IBTimes Staff Reporter | January 5, 2011 8:48 PM AEST
China's J-20 stealth fighter pictures leaked

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J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet: 5 Facts About China's New Stealth Plane

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Stealth Fighter Chinese Status Update: J-20 Stealth Fighter Prototype (Photo)
by Phil Stewart
 

Quickie

Colonel
Some witnesses in Chinese forums said that the plane was till No.2001 but the engines had been change.

I think maybe the engines in the previous photos were AL-31s, the most mature engines for testing flight control software. Now software has passed the test, so they get a pair of indigenous engines, which may have higher thrust, on the plane testing their performance and preparing for the maiden flight.

Could it be that they change only the nozzle for thrust control reason?
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
Some witnesses in Chinese forums said that the plane was till No.2001 but the engines had been change.

I think maybe the engines in the previous photos were AL-31s, the most mature engines for testing flight control software. Now software has passed the test, so they get a pair of indigenous engines, which may have higher thrust, on the plane testing their performance and preparing for the maiden flight.

that's risky, for ensure J-20 maiden flight success, they will still use mature engine Al-31s.
they may replace higher thrust indigenous engines later, it will take many times of flight test in a period, no rush.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
I think we will still need J-10B. Because I think China will apply the same the Hi/Lo structure to its AF as the US and J-20 is definitely the high end of things, I think they will need J-10B as the low end backbone of the China AF. I don't think any nation can afford to make F-22/J-20 type of fighters as their backbone fighter. It's financially impossible.
IMHO if J-20 enters service later than 2013, J-10B will need to enter service too. J-10B is designed to be able to enter service. It is not purely a testbed. But if J-20 can enter service by 2013, J-10B will only be a testbed.

There will be enough aircraft on the low end -- J-10 (perhaps upgraded with FWS10A) and J-11B / J-16 -- to have the hi / lo mix.

Since I've been away for quite a while, I am a little confused of the designation of J-16. This is the first time I've heard it. I thought J-15 was the new conventional carrier-born fighter. So what is J-16 and why is China developing J-16 and J-20 at the same time?
IMHO based on Huitong's site, J-16 is not a 5G aircraft. It is merely an upgraded Flanker just like Super Hornet is an upgraded Hornet. However, rumors on this thread suggest that SAC does have a true 5G fighter bomber in prototype stage.

I think J-11B / J-11BS will not continue production for too long. They were actually delayed by 2 years thanks to FWS10's problems. They will be superseded by J-16 fairly soon.

Huitong's site says: "The aircraft is expected to feature comformal weapon bay or internal weapon carriage, stealth optimized engine intakes and canted vertical tailfins to reduce RCS. First flight was rumored to be within 2011. J-16 is thought to be in the same class of Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle."

Again, a little too ambitious to me. You mentioned China will stop making J-10 in 2013 and stop making J-16 in 2015. That's only 3 years after it enters service, according your ambitious prediction.
IMHO J-16 can function as the low end while J-20 is the high end. But if the 5G fighter bomber proceeds very smoothly, that could cut short J-16's production. SAC's rumored 5G fighter bomber could fit this role or CAC could modify the J-20 (like FB-22) to make the 5G fighter bomber. So J-16 is also an insurance policy against 5G fighter bomber's delay.

So, it looks like a new niche, but what is it?
IMHO the role of the Tu-22M3 Backfire. This is PLAAF's answer to the CMC's challenge, "how do you deal with carriers?" Compare with Second Artillery's answer.

I expect J-20 to be able to hold a small-sized ASM on each side, around the same size as a Meteor (~4 meters). J-20 would go passive and get closer to a CVBG until its passive sensors like E/O or IRST can detect the CVBG on the horizon. Then <100 km it releases the ramjet missiles and travel at ~4 mach until they hit target in one minute.

If J-20 stealth works properly, the CVBG would have almost no time to react. It would merely detect something incoming very fast at T minus <1 minute. By the time order is given, SM-2 is ready and illuminators have focused it would have half a minute. By that time it might be too late to use SM-2 so you would need to use SeaRAM. SeaRAM might be able to engage 3 of them (maybe successfully hit two) before it is overwhelmed and the first missile impacts.

A ~4 meter missile is a bit bigger than the air-launch harpoon and ~3.5 mach will deliver a lot more energy than a subsonic harpoon. 8 of these (4 J-20's worth) could mission kill the carrier (first 2 is shot down and 6 impacts).
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
That taxi test was faster than I imagined. Amazing how some are still thinking this is a giant hoax. You look at that video and what do they think? It's a Mythbusters trick that the fake J-20 mockup is being dragged by a pulley and cable behind a pick-up truck?
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
Could it be that they change only the nozzle for thrust control reason?

some body just said the color of the nozzles which look like deferent, but maybe when they saw it, the bright in the time is defferent, so many people have defferent opinion for this, there is no conclusion to confirm the engines in *2001 prototype have been changed.
 

cloyce

Junior Member
IMHO the role of the Tu-22M3 Backfire. This is PLAAF's answer to the CMC's challenge, "how do you deal with carriers?" Compare with Second Artillery's answer.

I expect J-20 to be able to hold a small-sized ASM on each side, around the same size as a Meteor (~4 meters). J-20 would go passive and get closer to a CVBG until its passive sensors like E/O or IRST can detect the CVBG on the horizon. Then <100 km it releases the ramjet missiles and travel at ~4 mach until they hit target in one minute.

If J-20 stealth works properly, the CVBG would have almost no time to react. It would merely detect something incoming very fast at T minus <1 minute. By the time order is given, SM-2 is ready and illuminators have focused it would have half a minute. By that time it might be too late to use SM-2 so you would need to use SeaRAM. SeaRAM might be able to engage 3 of them (maybe successfully hit two) before it is overwhelmed and the first missile impacts.

A ~4 meter missile is a bit bigger than the air-launch harpoon and ~3.5 mach will deliver a lot more energy than a subsonic harpoon. 8 of these (4 J-20's worth) could mission kill the carrier (first 2 is shot down and 6 impacts).

I don't think it's a good idea, why don't you just break though enemy fighter screen with your stealth fighter and let other non-stealth platform like JH-7 or J-11B to throw hundreds of AShMs?
 

KYli

Brigadier
Some comments from US intelligence
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China's Missile and Stealth Fighter Advances Draw U.S. Attention
By Tony Capaccio - Jan 5, 2011 2:35 PM ET


The Pentagon underestimated the speed at which China has developed and fielded a ballistic missile that may be capable of hitting a maneuvering U.S. aircraft carrier, the head of Navy intelligence said today.

“We underestimated when they would be competent and capable of delivering a technological weapon of that type,” Vice Admiral Jack Dorsett told defense reporters. The DF-21D missile now has so-called initial combat capability, he said, according to his analysts and U.S. Pacific Command head Admiral Robert Willard.

“We’ve been on the mark on an awful lot of our assessments but there has been a handful of things we have underestimated,” Dorsett said.

Dorsett said it was too early to tell whether the U.S. also has misjudged China’s capability to build a stealth fighter jet comparable to the U.S. F-22. The purportedly stealthy aircraft, known as the J-20, would be a first for China.

The Chinese have tested the DF-21D missile over land a sufficient number of times to conclude that “the missile system itself is truly competent and capable,” Dorsett said. Still, China has not yet demonstrated a capability to use the missile effectively in combat situations, he said.

China’s advances in military technology are drawing close scrutiny and concern from the Pentagon and new Republican- controlled House, particularly when they may jeopardize the dominance of U.S. naval forces in the Pacific region. News of the Chinese advances comes as Congress prepares to consider cuts in the Defense Department budget.

Chinese Threat

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in a Sept. 16 speech that China’s “investments in anti-ship weaponry and ballistic missiles could threaten America’s primary way to project power and help allies in the Pacific -- particularly our forward bases and carrier strike groups.”

Gates is scheduled to visit China next week for talks seeking to improve military relations.

Dorsett’s remarks on the DF-21D status go further than the Pentagon did in its latest annual report on China’s military, released in August.

The 2010 report included a sketch of the notional flight profile of the new missile. It gave no indication that the missile had reached, or was close to, an initial combat capability. Nor did the report mention China’s new J-20 stealth fighter, which has appeared in photos on the Internet in recent days.

U.S. intelligence in particular misjudged China’s progress developing the technology necessary to sense and attack a maneuvering vessel, Dorsett said. Dorsett heads the Navy’s Office of Naval Operations for Information Dominance, which includes Navy intelligence.

Surprising Progress

On advances in ballistic-missile capabilities by the Chinese, Dorsett said “we certainly wouldn’t have expected them to be this far along” if asked five years ago.

“The technology has increased their probability of being able to employ a salvo of missiles to be able to hit a maneuvering target” he said.

Still, the Chinese military has yet to demonstrate it can effectively employ the missile, Dorsett said.

“They have certainly test fired this over land, but to our knowledge they have not test fired this over water against maneuvering targets,” he said.

China has “the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, they have sensors on ships that can feed into the missile for targeting,” he said. “So could they start to employ that? Yes, I think so.” He added that it is unclear how “proficient they are in the employment” of that capability.

Stealth Fighter

Photos of the J-20 aircraft have appeared on the Internet and Aviation Week & Space Technology reported Monday that the aircraft was conducing early runway tests as a prelude to a first test flight.

“I think time will tell whether we have underestimated. I’m not convinced that we have at this point. It will take more time,” Dorsett said.

The J-20 disclosure “was not a surprise,” Dorsett said. “It’s not clear to me” when the aircraft will reach its initial operational status.

“They have been able invest in a military build-up and a stealth fighter is just one aspect of that,” he said. “The fact they are making progress in that should not be a surprise us.”

“How far along are they? I don’t know. They clearly have an initial prototype,” Dorsett said. “Is it advanced and how many trials and test and demos do they need to go through before it becomes operational? That’s not clear to me.”
 
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