J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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Or the flanker... -shudder-



Yeah I agree with this -- you can kind of see the same thing going on with F-14, F-15--> Su-27, mig-29 to a degree where the russians took what the americans had pioneered and refined it and arguably made their own aircraft in the same weight class more potent than equivalent american ones.

Agreed. US set the marks, then the others "follow", although technically it's more they let US take the lead, then proceed to go beyond where US was earlier. While US would of course, respond by creating something better, this scene is only optimal when there are good fundings, good management, and good researches and studies that lead to further breakthroughs. Trouble with stuff like the F-35 is that it is perhaps the worst failure as a to-be-exported-and-domestic-use product. The overly-high profile publicity of the project, the overly-extensive project timeline, and the unrealistic attempt to make a jack-of-all-trades 5th gen WHILE maintaining stealth, in turn, created a project that enjoyed more troubles than anything, while competitions simply sat around, absorbed what they can learn, and prepare for something better.

I still can't accept what they've made the F-35 to be today. It looked like something that's been dragged down the street. I remember a Harvard Business Review journal that I've bought, and in one section of the book, the article was "Why Bad Projects are so Hard to Kill". I can only think of the F-35 right now.
 
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Quickie

Colonel
Allegedly Huzhigeng has been answering some questions on the procurement of J10A and J10B to PLAAF,PLANAF and PAF.
Huzhigeng recently made another appearance on CJDBY, and brought some more insider information. For those of you that don't know who he is, he works for the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, the design bureau for J-17, JF-17, J-10 and J-20. It looks like development in the next year will be pretty smooth ride. Without further delay, here is what he said.

When asked about test flights of J-10B, he said:

年底前要入役的。。当然要欢迎总装头头了。第一批1X架。将装备某王牌师。。。某师的人已经有 不少飞行员来 到成飞了。年底前就有几架要飞走。。。。
"It (J-10B) will enter service at the end of the year, thus military officials came to visit. The first batch will have more than 10 planes, and sent to a first tier unit. That unit had already send quite a few pilots to CAC, and few will fly home with their new toys before the end of the year."

Furthermore, he talked about export:

还有。。棍子的外销已经签了单了。。XIAO BA。。是第一个用HU。。。XX架。。。比一个团多一些。里面的设备有些变化。。。小BA特意要 求的。。
"Also, export order for J-10 had been signed for Pakistan. There will be XX planes, slightly more than a regiment (about 2 squadrons) size unit. Some changes to avionics at the request of Pakistanis."

Regarding Pakistani version:

老的。。。。不过里面设备有变化。。。。
"The export orders are for older J-10A version, not B. However there are upgrades done."

About SAC and J-11 export:

北边的战斗机的用HU全是中国空军和海军航空兵。。不可能出口的。以后也不要指望北边的飞机会 出口。当然包 括北边的四代机。。
"SAC's client are Chinese air force and naval aviation, so export is not possible. Do not expect them to export in the future either, including their 4th (5th) gen."

Whether J-10A will stop production after J-10B starts:

不会。。海航的单子还没有生产完。。还有小BA。。也要生产一批棍A。。。。。
"No, the orders from naval aviation still have to be filled, as well as Pakistan's."

Whether WS-15 engine can keep up with the progress of J-20 on time:

四代大推跟上歼20的进度没有问题。。目前进展还是很顺利的。。明年03架歼20会装上新的航 电。。。某所 的光电式分布式系统明年也要装机的。。。水平和F35一个档次...
"There is no problem as everything is going smooth at this point. The 3rd prototype next year will be equipped with new avionics. Our own EODAS (Electro Optical Distributed Apature System) will also be installed, and is similar to one found on F-35."

Whether J-10B will be equipped with WS-10 insteald of AL-31F in the future:

很难....至少空军的歼10B目前为止签的单子都是毛子的发动机...太行基本上全部让沈阳 装机了...
"It's difficult. All J-10B orders at this point are planing on using AL-31F. SAC took all the WS-10 for themselves."

What kind of engine will Pakistan's J-10 use:

毛国发动机了...这还用问...
"Russian, do you really need to ask?"
½ñÌìÏÂÎçÅ®¹÷×ÓÊÔ·É - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

N.B. Above transcript taken from Pakdef>
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This is posted by zoom on the J-10 thread
I supposed that since one of the news had to do with J-20, the WS-15 developments(really happy to hear that the WS-15 is going smoothly), and the new avionics that J-20 will be equipped, it deserves a spot here.

Cheers to J-20

In the interview, HuZhigeng is also confirming, directly or by implication, 2 things.

1. A third prototype is coming up. (But he didn't say both the first 2 prototypes was flight testing type thereby confirming the testing is much further along.)

2. SAC has their own version of 4th Gen! (i.e. 5th Gen) (He inadvertently implied it by saying they won't be exporting it just like the flankers!)
 

Blitzo

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In the interview, HuZhigeng is also confirming, directly or by implication, 2 things.

1. A third prototype is coming up. (But he didn't say both the first 2 prototypes was flight testing type thereby confirming the testing is much further along.)

2. SAC has their own version of 4th Gen! (i.e. 5th Gen) (He inadvertently implied it by saying they won't be exporting it just like the flankers!)

For no1, we should remember CAC usually has their "second" prototype act the static test bed while the third is usually the "second" flying prototype, again, usually with avionics similar to the final production version installed. (SUPER KEEN FOR EODAS ARRRGHGHGHHGalguaopgas;lgfudgecakeslolagaspgo)
For no2, I think we've known for a while now that SAC has their own 4th (5th) gen fighter under development (J-16 or J-19 or whatever) but it's nice to get a bit more support.

Again be cautious extrapolating too much from big shrimps and rumours, but by golly it's interesting! It's the closest thing we can get to offical status updates.
 
For no1, we should remember CAC usually has their "second" prototype act the static test bed while the third is usually the "second" flying prototype, again, usually with avionics similar to the final production version installed. (SUPER KEEN FOR EODAS ARRRGHGHGHHGalguaopgas;lgfudgecakeslolagaspgo)
For no2, I think we've known for a while now that SAC has their own 4th (5th) gen fighter under development (J-16 or J-19 or whatever) but it's nice to get a bit more support.

Again be cautious extrapolating too much from big shrimps and rumours, but by golly it's interesting! It's the closest thing we can get to offical status updates.

While it's no news we all would suppose the SAC's will be a tier 2 5th gen(F-35 equivalent), for some reason I have a feeling that SAC's "F-35" will be a much more successful project than its American counterpart...at least less politics, hassles, and irrelevant customers..
 
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i.e.

Senior Member
In the interview, HuZhigeng is also confirming, directly or by implication, 2 things.

1. A third prototype is coming up. (But he didn't say both the first 2 prototypes was flight testing type thereby confirming the testing is much further along.)

2. SAC has their own version of 4th Gen! (i.e. 5th Gen) (He inadvertently implied it by saying they won't be exporting it just like the flankers!)

He essentially said nothing.
 

Quickie

Colonel
He essentially said nothing.

My bad. I think I may have to take back all my words. For some reason I thought it was an interview on a TV studio and HuZhigeng was someone from CAC answering questions from a TV host. The truth is we have no way of knowing the true identity of the big shrimps in internet sites.
 
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siegecrossbow

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My bad. I think I may have to take back all my words. For some reason I thought it was an interview on a TV studio and HuZhigeng was someone from CAC answering questions from a TV host. The truth is we have no way of knowing the true identity of the big shrimps in internet sites.

Interview with the CAC about J-10B and J-20 at this stage... are you out of your mind? News like that would be all over Chinese and Western newspapers.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Interview with the CAC about J-10B and J-20 at this stage... are you out of your mind? News like that would be all over Chinese and Western newspapers.

It's still probable, but obviously with much less details than what was said. Like I said...I was in a hynoptic state brought on by sleepiness. ;)
 

siegecrossbow

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Might be a bit off topic:

Did a bit of background research on Huzhigeng. Found his account on Tianya in and he claims to have studied in UC Berkley formerly. This means that it is highly unlikely that he is an actual insider in the CAC but we can't discount the fact that he has some old buddies during his university years (in China) who might've been telling him things during drunken bouts.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Might be a bit off topic:

Did a bit of background research on Huzhigeng. Found his account on Tianya in and he claims to have studied in UC Berkley formerly. This means that it is highly unlikely that he is an actual insider in the CAC but we can't discount the fact that he has some old buddies during his university years (in China) who might've been telling him things during drunken bouts.
LoL, I'm at Berkeley...when did he study there?
 
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