J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Quickie · Sep 21, 2012

dingyibvs said:
That may be true, but it's also a heavy plane, likely heavier than the F-22 for example, and it's got a LOT less thrust to work with, so I think supercruising with a WS-10 as it is right now is unlikely.

I was referring to the aerodynamic shape of the J-20. As to its weight, an elongated object with the same volume as a stubby object will always look heavier/bigger volume than the stubby one. Someone has really to use a program to calculate the volume of the J-20 and F-22 to find out their actual volume or weight.

dingyibvs · Sep 21, 2012

Hopefully the WS-15 will be ready by then, but China had a lot of trouble with the WS-10 so who knows? Then again, they could've also learned from their mistakes, like how the J-20's roll out at least seems much smoother than the J-10's, for example. I think it's entirely possible that the first J-20s will enter service with some variant of the WS-10.

As for the J-20's weight, I think the J-20 is rather chunky too, and its nozzles are right up at the end of the plane, making its effective length even longer than the F-22's, so I think it's rather unlikely that it'd be lighter.

NikeX · Sep 21, 2012

Schumacher said:
Without oxygen for the pilots, the F22 would be handicapped. USAF should wait until they get an adequate oxygen system. Or maybe get pilots who can hold their breath for a long ....... long time.

Your post is proof that the J-20 will be measured by the yardstick of the F-22, which you may realize is a mature design first flown over 20 plus years ago

kyanges · Sep 21, 2012

Schumacher said:
Who knows ? They said it was 'fixed' or never had a problem many times over the years didn't they ?
The last time it was 'fixed' was few weeks ago just when the F22s were needed urgently in Japan to provide moral support, how convenient. And guess what, they flew there still with the altitude restriction and flying close to airports.

That's exactly why I'm asking, lol. It is unfortunate that we have to settle for a shrug of the shoulders.

NikeX · Sep 21, 2012

There didn't seem to be any problems when they had this encounter with those Eurofighters recently at Red Flag so maybe things are fixed

Air Force Brat · Sep 21, 2012

NikeX said:
Your post is proof that the J-20 will be measured by the yardstick of the F-22, which you may realize is a mature design first flown over 20 plus years ago

Thats a very astute observation Nike X, and the F-22 will likely remain the benchmark for air superiority fighter aircraft for at least the next decade, probably longer. The J-20 does represent some very novel thinking on the part of Chengdu, and is the first indigenous air superiority aircraft in China, while it is in some respects unconventional, Dr. Song and his design team have come up with what many on our forum believe to be a winner, pugacheve-diver had translated an early paper by Dr. Song in April of 2011. I believe the engineer had posted a link for me, but it is a very outstanding and honest assessment of the F-22 and how the F-22 had influenced the design of the J-20. Many of my early notions about the J-20 were changed by this outstanding and incitefull paper! I want to say it was post 1624 on the previous thread?

Schumacher · Sep 21, 2012

NikeX said:
Your post is proof that the J-20 will be measured by the yardstick of the F-22, which you may realize is a mature design first flown over 20 plus years ago

I wouldn't call it a 'mature design' until they fix the problems.
And yes, J20 is designed with matching/exceeding F22's intended capabilities in mind and that's how it'll be measured.

Air Force Brat · Sep 21, 2012

Schumacher said:
Without oxygen for the pilots, the F22 would be handicapped. USAF should wait until they get an adequate oxygen system. Or maybe get pilots who can hold their breath for a long ....... long time.

SSSSSHHHHuuuuumaaachhheer, quiet, you know only South Sea Islanders, who were pearl divers get to fly the Raptor! Oh yeah, and mountain Sherpa's, quiet man, the bad guys are listening!

NikeX · Sep 21, 2012

Schumacher said:
I wouldn't call it a 'mature design' until they fix the problems.
And yes, J20 is designed with matching/exceeding F22's intended capabilities in mind and that's how it'll be measured.

And the problems are what? There is nothing wrong with the engines or airframe so other than this solvable problem with onboard oxygen generation what problems are you talking about?

NikeX · Sep 21, 2012

Air Force Brat said:
Thats a very astute observation Nike X, and the F-22 will likely remain the benchmark for air superiority fighter aircraft for at least the next decade, probably longer. The J-20 does represent some very novel thinking on the part of Chengdu, and is the first indigenous air superiority aircraft in China, while it is in some respects unconventional, Dr. Song and his design team have come up with what many on our forum believe to be a winner, pugacheve-diver had translated an early paper by Dr. Song in April of 2011. I believe the engineer had posted a link for me, but it is a very outstanding and honest assessment of the F-22 and how the F-22 had influenced the design of the J-20. Many of my early notions about the J-20 were changed by this outstanding and incitefull paper! I want to say it was post 1624 on the previous thread?

Thanks for the insight, Can you provide a link or something so that I might also read this paper?

J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Quickie

Colonel

dingyibvs

Senior Member

NikeX

Banned Idiot

kyanges

Junior Member

NikeX

Banned Idiot

Air Force Brat

Brigadier

Schumacher

Senior Member

Air Force Brat

Brigadier

NikeX

Banned Idiot

NikeX

Banned Idiot