J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Status
Not open for further replies.

Player99

Junior Member
Below is something I found early this morning, which I felt worthy of reading. I spent over two hours cleaning it up, but didn't have a energy to translate it.

It looks to be from some CAC insider, who first appeared on one military fan board on Nov 3, 2009. He reavealed something about the then J-XX. And from then on, he kept coming back to reveal more. All this had happened before 2011-1-11, the date for J-20's first public appearance. The first paragraph is by the guy who compiled the rest.

Read carefully and please translate carefully if anyone's willing to do the translation here. Please, no google translation! It'd be a blasphemy of languages, yet rendering little true to the original text.

刚刚整理了(中华军备)上帝的惩罚1 近两年的帖子和发言,他现在在军备被公认有料之人,业内人士,不过他的料有些还是和大众所了解和听到的有些出入的,各位看官上眼讨论一下吧。

2009-12-03:很多人可能会说:“你怎么知道? 是不是忽悠大家?” 多的我不说,我来这里发贴没有必要骗大家。我保证下面说的话全部真实。有兴趣的朋友可以听听,不信任的朋友就自行绕道。

2003年 第一架歼-XX,也就是大家说的J14原型机,在某部经过专家讨论定型。这是在递交的很多方案中选出来的。
2005年 某研究所生产出第一架歼14原型机。2006年初进行了验证首飞
2007年 改变了外型,在国产和购买的发动机之间进行换位测试。雷达国产。
2008年 还是发动机问题。由于发动机拖了后退,在这个问题上专家进行了很多次讨论,最后确定2010年之前,先把出了发动机之外的所有部件确定下来。然后2010年确定装国产还是进口,因为国产高效发动机还在测试中。
2009年 雷达再升级。某涂料XXXXXXXXX(此段保秘)。

可以确定的是,在加装了某型发动机以后,还需要进行很多次试飞、武器攻击测试。此段测试目前还没有进行,路还很长。间总共进行了大约15次左右试飞。

J14除了发动机,其他都有4代机所有特征。其中涂料、空气循环加强系统、机载挂仓为世界领先水平。雷达 做战指挥系统,作用XXXXX。可以说一下的是,此作用主要是加强和J10、J8协同作战能力。另外现还有几个测试项目,目的是对海和对地攻击。最后,此机的生产材料加入了一些XXX,目的是为了减轻重量和飞行稳定型,对隐身也有效果。

最后,在大家最关心的外型上,这里我可以透露一下:外型可以说是相当的牛!可以说是J10D加强型,但不同于J10系列的外型设计。也可以当做成一种全新的设计。和F22有明显区别。也可以看做是中国现在某型飞机的双坐型设计。机翼、机头明显变宽、变薄。其中最重要的一点:此机全身上下都不是对称设计的。如果放大,机体上部和腹部有明显棱角、机壳有明显凹凸设计。

我可以明确的告诉大家,2012-2014年,我们将装备国产的第一架4代机。最快2016年初,形成规模。发动机技术是我们长期的问题。我们也急需这方面的人才。

2009-12-25:再透露点消息,第4代机武器攻击测试非常成功!!!上次透露中国第4代机早已试飞,今天我再透露点消息:昨天晚上零晨1点28分,中国的第4代机进行了攻击测试, 非常成功。 全厅响起了热烈的掌声。很多人都激动的流出了眼泪。领导还特批放假2天。目前测试项目,已经进行到武器攻击测试阶段。然后明年初进行机体最大荷载和最强机动性测试。另外,纠正一下现在大家所说的第4代型号的问题:大家说的J14目前没有这个型号, J1 5是舰载机型号,J20才是第4代机。我习惯把他叫成黑鹰。

另外再透露一下:我们的舰载机和4代机是同时进行的。在某型号的基础上进行了改进。目前的问题是,此型号飞机即要面临滑式起飞,又要面对将来可能出现的弹飞起飞。预计2012年进行正式生产,2014年第一台国产4代机。

发动机的进展可以说很快,到2015年大规模生产时,我们的4代机有望能装上国产发动机。

发动机是中国目前新型飞机最大的问题。老一辈子科学家期望中国能出一批顶尖发动机人才。可以透露一点,中国目前造的发动机,已经进入实际测试阶段,稳定型还有待验证。

2010-01-16:今天上午吃过饭,接到一条消息:中国4代机发动机技术瓶颈,已被研究院专家突破。全厅人激动得跳成一团、泪流满面。几十年了,我们终于造出来自己4代机的发动机。 4代机的组装接近尾声,很快我们就可以装备国产的发动机进行首飞。此4代机发动机是科学家付出了很多努力才研究出来的。早在2002年,国家开始大力发展发动机技术了,可是到了2005年实际上进展不大。领导每到一次,说得最多的还是发动机问题,大会小会都谈。 在2006年4代机试飞成功后,领导们感到压力是空前的,还专门下了死命令,必须10年内把中国的第4代机搞出来。这次会议的代号就叫“短跑计划”。 没想到专家们提前4年完成! 这是多少代人共同努力的结果啊。他们抛弃了传统的“从3代成熟发动机研究到4代发动机”的阶段。由于我们的发动机在早些时间跟不上机体的研制速度,所以科学家在早些时间把重点全部集中到4代发动机上来,整整跨越了一代,全力以赴。所以大家就会看到很多3代机发动机还需要进口,而4代发动机就已经研究出来了,这是因为在3代机方面投入的力量很少,第3代发动机改进型号也就少了。不管怎么说,这个发动机研究成功,并经过性能和稳定性测试。

2010-03-25: 去年年底,重点发动机瓶颈被专家突破后,现在一直在进行着相关试验,运行得还不错,测试快接近尾声。完毕后就会上机了。到时,第4代机就会装备国产的推力进行可行性试验。但是路还很长。另外,最近飞机隐身涂料改变了些东西、雷达已经升级,外型还是一个字:酷。我认为好看过于T50。

舰载机的问题很大。目前得到的消息是,已经放弃了原有一些设计。具体问题不便透露。可以说一下的是,原因是几位老专家对某些地方产生分歧,越来越严重。舰载机在初期会研制几种版本,目的的为了满足以后弹射和滑式起飞的需求。预警机是Y8改、直8改。

最近有关4代机的消息大部分就是这些了。请大家不要相信那些自吹自垒的有关4代机的文章。中国的4代机没大家想的那么牛。

雷达某些地方需要改进,升级版也在研制中。值得庆祝的是,在空气动力系数方面,中国的4代机决对是最领先的。.

2010-04-15:好久没上线发贴了,因为前段时间工作比较忙。上级已经发达了死命令,科学家都在日夜的加班加点研究,突破我们还存在的一些问题。2个月之内,工作人员是不能进出的,也不能与外界联系。由于保秘原因,我只谈四代机进度方面。在四代机方面,4月6日已经搭配上国产的发动机进行测试。动力有所不足,加速方面还达不到要求。现在最关键的是在隐身系数上的问题。所内已经开了不少于5次大会来讨论,如果目前的方案失败,那么一切得重来,原型及动力外型都得重来。所以,目前研究所内的人们都在想办法解决。目前的这方面虽然不是是好的,也算数一数二吧。

再谈外型方面:在尾部上做了很大的改进,目的是为了减小涡喷温度与喷射角度。在隐身材料上,目前已经不是问题,甚至超过国外。大家最关心的中国四代机的外型上,我现在可以透露下:是带鸭翼的重型歼击机。飞机的研制过程是非常漫长的,只有在不断的升级与发现问题后才能提高。还得使用2年不出问题,才能交部队。目前的总体进度已经达到80%左右,如果不出问题,预计在2012年全部完工,2015年服役部队。时间成熟时,我会发一些图片出来,但是目前还是处于二级保秘状态。

舰载机相信不久就可以和大家见面了。我们现在自己研究舰载机,国产的某些飞机外型基本都符号要求,但是最大的还是动力加速和载弹问题。我们自己也在研究弹射,已经成功。那么,中国今后的舰载机一定是用国产了,这是可以肯定的。如果弹射进度跟不上,只能进口。

2010-12-29:上面都是我在中华网的原创。刚开始发布时,我想还有很多人不相信,对我存在怀疑。现在大家可以再回过头看,如有一点偏差,可以随便咒本人。本人还承诺过,这次会有图出现。我想大家这几天都看见了,就是它了。我消失了一年多,是因为前段时间的研究实在太忙,我已经1年多没有回过老家见媳妇和孩子了。

我还对大家说过,由于怕泻密,我一直只能报料大体进展情况,绝不触及性能方面,这是原则。我可以说下这几天的一些小事情,大家看到的这架,其实只是其中的一架。这架其实是改进型号,前面的有一架出了一个很大的问题。我以前也说过,大家可以去查查我以前说过的问题。现在的这架飞机尾部做了很大改进,武器系统和试飞早已测完毕,大多都是晚上进行的。为什么这次会白天拿出来?具体原因我不说。另外,我还可以说一下:4代的空气循环加强系统和雷达做战指挥系统,中国首创!
 

Lion

Senior Member
So long... I manage to read half and give up already..

It say that initial problem of j-14(J-XX) development is always engine problem. Not able to find a suitable and capable indigenous engine always plague china aviation development.

But soon, some breakthru of engine happen in 2009, and domestic engine for J-XX is now a reality. Development of jXX engine is more successful and shorter than WS-10 engine is due to the change of management and dropping of old method. They decide to skip the 3rd generTion turbofan route and directly jump into 4th generation development(WS-15). More resources and man power is directed into WS-15 and as a result. It takes a shorter development time compare to WS -10. The first batch of J-XX squadron ready for evaluation will happen in 2012-2014.
 
No, he said it should begin flight testing. We all knew that was about the stage it was at. The WS-10 didn't enter mass production until 8 years after flight testing began. WS-15 is a long way off.

This afternoon when I read your post, I wanted to reply that I had a feeling that both WS-10 and WS-15 were happening parallel and separately, therefore we shouldn't utilize the timeframe for WS-10 to judge the WS-15, because I had a feeling that it was always possible that even if WS-15 failed, the WS-10 could be a backup. They might also do things differently. Plus, WS-15 probably had a much different requirement. The article downstairs really did confirm that. This will make sense why J-20 showed up first, THEN we see more of J-10B afterwards. If we piece what's been told by the article, it meant the WS-10A might have adopted certain methods of how they make WS-15 later on, therefore suddenly speeding it up. Because they needed to apply the successes to WS-10A, therefore it showed up "after" the WS-15 . In addition, something now begins to tell me that there's a high chance that Chinese military aviation's flagship production in this decade wont be 3rd gen, but 4th gen. In other words, China realized they will become really good at making 4gen. I even think this is because all the "breakthroughs" from WS-15 and J-20 had opened a new era for China, therefore we suddenly see a bunch of rumors talking of "JH-7B, J-16,17,18,19". (kinda like how T-10, the prototype of Su-27, had paved way to Su-30, Su-33, Su-34, Su-35, Su-37) This might also explain that because of the successes, which leads to the industry now wanting to experiment more, and able to offer choices to upgrade the PLAN,PLAAF, all new indigenous hardware and export(because all this means more business). And with what seemed as that the major bottlenecks had been resolved, Chinese military aviation industry is now in the stage of testing various projects and feeling their way around it, while PLAAF is most likely to further restructure. This might perhaps speak for a possible reason why suddenly PLAAF pilot training durations may see changes, and probably along with that, new technology and new "systems and characteristics" of planes demanding new requirements and schools of thoughts and training for the pilots. Of course these are my speculations, but I'm just trying to piece couple things together and make sense out of them.I even doubt they will have that much money to make so many variants, unless the fundamental message we're getting is, these guys are really capable of production of these platforms at fractions of Western equivalent. In a sense, this makes sense Chinese military is never known to deploy or possess extremely expensive toys like the US, and neither have that great of a funding.
 
Last edited:

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
^ Agreed... both are even being developed by seperate companies, and I don't think technology or meeting the requirements was the major problem for individual WS-10, but getting mass production of reliable units.
 

Player99

Junior Member
I'm too lazy to translate the thing. But if I read correctly and still remember what I had read, it implies that the J-20 that flies uses a pair of domestic engines (WS-10 variant?) and the production ones will use WS-15 that is in late phase of testing.

And it says the J-20's weapons system, flight control system, etc. had all been tested successfully before the 2011-1-11 public appearence.
 

Player99

Junior Member
It says, or should we say, he says: "Don't believe those bragging articles and writings about our 4th Gen fighter! China's 4th Gen is not so good as some of you imagined."

He says (now remember this was before anyone outside the CAC had ever seen the J-20): "As for its shape and looks, I have one word for it: Cool! I think it's better looking than the T050."

"The (4th gen) engine development is fast! It's possible that the engine will be ready in 2015 when J-20's mass production begins."

"The J-20 you have seen is just one of them. There was one that had met serious problems."

"Radar was upgraded again in 2009. Some airframe coating material was developed and applied."

Regarding China's carrier-based aircraft, he says it was in trouble to meet the requirements for both types of taking off methods. The problem stems more from that the experts were of sharply different opinions. The plane will be in formal production in 2012, and will (I'm not sure about I understand him correctly here) start to use domestic engines from 2014 on."
 

Speeder

Junior Member
LOL...What about the F-35? High maintenance beauty queen still not ready to come out?


Beauty queen? Naaah. a Monikaficated summer intern more suitable :

the lastest Victoria’s Secret? Perhaps. multi task? certainly//NOD NOD//

Always clap her hands at a desk, or under it, and cheers “hurry hurry up , Bill ( she really means bill) , someone is coming!” lol




And Bltizo buddy, picture this:

J-20 : a 40-DD sized domina kongfu wife.

T-50 : an insatiable Eastern European misstress. With provoking body piercings up and down along the curve, she’s actrually “a Kournikova-Going-Punk”.

F-22: THE personal assistant in smooth light latex. Yeeepiiii!

You questioned “the motoring equivalents” ? With these ladies, I would say you only have to worry about how to keep your own “motor” humming aound the clock. lol
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
@speeder:

......... Whaaaaaatt? o_O

I think we're off topic enough about comparing looks rofl.

---

Can someone translate Player's post? :D
 

Speeder

Junior Member
Bltizo:

looks are a part of the whole package I suppose? Anywayz, that's my last post along the fun line.

seriously, it seems that the extra size of J-20 nose indicates that it was its original design guideline to field the largest radar of all. The questions then are:

1. how's the AESA thing going?
2. has J-20 larger AESA neccesarily longer detection range than F-22, T-50, F-35?
3. if it is indeed the most powerful/longer range, what diff it makes in terms of facing F-22 headon in BVR?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top