J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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pugachev_diver

pugachev_diver

Banned Idiot
Wonder if variable wings are still that effective in today's era, if not considering its excess weight and complexity. I can understand that F22 still use large conventional wings because of its insane engines. But thinking from a different point of view, if it has a really swept wing, coupled with the two insane engines, it could probably match the speed of blackbirds.

On the other hand, I wonder if the canards really affect the to speed of J-20. Although it does add to the overall surface area, but they are really small. The idea is that when flying straight, it could cut the air in front of it, creating a shielding effect for the main wing situated behind, like team cycling in the Olympics, where few guys ride in a line, the front person takes the most drag. I thought that airplanes are just like sticks, doesn't matter how long the stick is, when pointed straight at someone, the person will only be able to see the tip.
 
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N

no_name

Colonel
The US airforce is starting to look into morphing airframe soon. They probably consider swept wing outdated.
 
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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
pugachev_diver said:
Wonder if variable wings are still that effective in today's era, if not considering its excess weight and complexity. I can understand that F22 still use large conventional wings because of its insane engines. But thinking from a different point of view, if it has a really swept wing, coupled with the two insane engines, it could probably match the speed of blackbirds.

On the other hand, I wonder if the canards really affect the to speed of J-20. Although it does add to the overall surface area, but they are really small. The idea is that when flying straight, it could cut the air in front of it, creating a shielding effect for the main wing situated behind, like team cycling in the Olympics, where few guys ride in a line, the front person takes the most drag. I thought that airplanes are just like sticks, doesn't matter how long the stick is, when pointed straight at someone, the person will only be able to see the tip.
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Swept wing design is obsolete due to advancement in aeronautical technology, not to mention the mechanical systems adds a lot of weight and take up precious internal space, even more premium when you considering stealth aircraft. As as if that's not enough, moving parts and gaps are big RCS booster.

And speaking of moving parts you can't ignore the canards, no doubt that'd dent the stealth capability somewhat but it's safe to estimate the CAC consider that as a reasonable tradeoff for a realistic design, plus Project 817 still have a long way to go before IOC, it can still go many ways.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
in order too properly attain the next generation morphing concept one would probably have too rely on a
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that is a wing that uses the elasticity of advanced materials too change it's shape like a conventional Flap equipped wing however without flaps. in this case the material is altered using actuators. this means the wing would look solid with out the slots and structure we are used too however in flight it would change shape on both the "leading edge" and "Flap" because the material is still one piece it would reduce the RCS and sound profile.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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no_name said:
It also seems that most movable wings are not designed to have weapon hardpoints on them, possibly for weight issues.
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Not exactly--I believe tornados and f-111s can carry payloads on their variable wings
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
let's not forget the wings also people! wings need to fold or in the case of tomcats be in "overswept" position for hanger storage! F-15 is too darn wide for ideal carrier storage never mind the non-buffed up landing gears.

F-15 Wingspan: 42 ft 10 in (13.05 m)

F-18 wings folded - 8.38 m

F-14 Wingspan:64ft 1.5in 19.54m (unswept)
38ft 2.5in 11.65m (swept)
33ft 3.5in 10.15m (overswept)
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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kwaigonegin said:
let's not forget the wings also people! wings need to fold or in the case of tomcats be in "overswept" position for hanger storage! F-15 is too darn wide for ideal carrier storage never mind the non-buffed up landing gears.

F-15 Wingspan: 42 ft 10 in (13.05 m)

F-18 wings folded - 8.38 m

F-14 Wingspan:64ft 1.5in 19.54m (unswept)
38ft 2.5in 11.65m (swept)
33ft 3.5in 10.15m (overswept)
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If an f-15 had buffed up landing gear, tailhook foldable wings and reinforced with anti corrosion materials it could be a naval fighter no problem (maybe add canards or something). Just like the flanker, rafale, recently the typhoon and gripen too.
J-20 with similar mods could work also.
 
rhino123

rhino123

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Bltizo said:
If an f-15 had buffed up landing gear, tailhook foldable wings and reinforced with anti corrosion materials it could be a naval fighter no problem (maybe add canards or something). Just like the flanker, rafale, recently the typhoon and gripen too.
J-20 with similar mods could work also.
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Er... yes. Of course an F-15 could do all that. But the problem is, the F-15 (navalise version) would be very large and an aircraft carrier might carry lesser of them. What we see is only the dimensions of the F-15, what about its weight when compared to the F-18? I would believe it would be much heavier too.

Plus, F-15 was from the start not designed for carrier operation, and to do that much modification to the aircraft would essentially mean designing for a new aircraft, not very cheap and cost effective to do it.

As for J-20, the arguement was the same as above... plus China's aircraft carriers are not as large as the US and seeing the first aircraft carrier that goes without catapult, I don't think aircraft fo J-20's size and weight might proof to be too useful (modified) on the deck.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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^ Rhino-- the su-27 has been modified for carrier use relatively successfully as has the mig-29 (and other planes like the rafale. Bae and Saab are thinking of carrier based typhoon and gripen too...)

Now I'm not saying j-20 will be modified for cv use but I'm saying the pla felt so inclined, it would not be hard and certainly not impossible.

If the first indigenous carrier is similar in size to varyag and with cats as we've all been hearing, a cv based j-20 shouldn't be a problem... If the planaf wanted to go that route.
 
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