J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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Asymptote

Banned Idiot
No it's not an assumption, just laws of physics. You'll figure it out if you compare how fast you can run with how fast you can change the course of your action, the two measures are unrelated. Traditional theory of "the faster the better" had been replaced by John Boyd's energy-maneuverability theory decades ago, at least in regards to dog fights.

I won't argue faster climbing rate gives one advantage, however, it's a different measure other than supercruise, apart from relating to T/W ratio, for example, the wing configuration (in fact the the shape of fuselage too) offers different advantages to either capacities.


If I am not wrong, the energy-maneuverability equation goes like this :

Ps = [T-D]/W*V

Ps =Thrust - Drag / Weight * Velocity

So, velocity is a definitely factor, in fact, it is a multiplier. So a faster aircraft would have harder chance of turning because of the potential energy required is relative to the velocity (speed)? Is that what you mean?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
You fellows need to...

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This thread is about the J-20. So knock off the personal attacks, country bashing, general BS and misguided history lessons.

This thread will be closed for a few hours to allow for cooling off! You all have been warned.


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bd popeye super moderator
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
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I cleaned up this thread . I deleted about 40 post. If your post is gone..so be it. Let it stay gone!

Some rules to post by..

FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!


1) Just because a member does not think the J-20 is the greatest thing since sliced bread that opinion is not China bashing. It is that members opinion.

2) Express your opinion in a gentlemanly fashion.

3) Knock off the political, economic and history discussion.

4) End the personal attacks!!

5) STAY ON TOPIC!!

bd popeye super moderator
 

pugachev_diver

Banned Idiot
I know the idea of putting J-20 on a carrier had been discussed for many times. I'm still thinking if this is plausible. Speaking of this, we have to mention the classic old beefing between F14 and F15. These two are very comparable for performances and weight class. The only major difference is the variable wing. Apart from this, is there anything special about the F14 that makes it more suitable for carriers?

It is common sense that if J-20 or its variants want to go on deck, it has to have reinforced landing gears, tail hook, and reinforced body structure. Apart from this, is there anything that makes it not suitable for carriers?

I understand that J-15 is being unmasked and it is expected to go on deck pretty soon. But it is like putting F-4s onto deck in the 90s when you already have the much more advanced hornets available. I mean, both are around similar weight class, similar body size, and especially that both have canard wings. Why bother developing the J-15? I mean, J-20 is probably not that much more expensive than J-15, since it will probably produced in even larger numbers than J-15. Plus, J-15 itself is a really big and heavy fighter, which makes it pretty expensive to just even make. Adding on the factor of low production numbers, this will probably push it cost to at least 60-80 million plus (USD). If J-20 is produced in large numbers, it will probably not be too much higher than this. When the price is almost the same, why pick the old and backward one?

This is really interesting to think about.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The only major difference is the variable wing. Apart from this, is there anything special about the F14 that makes it more suitable for carriers?

If you ever saw an F-14 and F-15 side by side you'd notice the superiority of the landing gear on that Tomcat. Naval aircraft need beefed up landing gear and airframes to take the pounding of arrested landings and catapult launches..

The F-15 was never intended to be a carrier borne aircraft.
 

s7s7s7

New Member
I know the idea of putting J-20 on a carrier had been discussed for many times. I'm still thinking if this is plausible. Speaking of this, we have to mention the classic old beefing between F14 and F15. These two are very comparable for performances and weight class. The only major difference is the variable wing. Apart from this, is there anything special about the F14 that makes it more suitable for carriers?

It is common sense that if J-20 or its variants want to go on deck, it has to have reinforced landing gears, tail hook, and reinforced body structure. Apart from this, is there anything that makes it not suitable for carriers?

I understand that J-15 is being unmasked and it is expected to go on deck pretty soon. But it is like putting F-4s onto deck in the 90s when you already have the much more advanced hornets available. I mean, both are around similar weight class, similar body size, and especially that both have canard wings. Why bother developing the J-15? I mean, J-20 is probably not that much more expensive than J-15, since it will probably produced in even larger numbers than J-15. Plus, J-15 itself is a really big and heavy fighter, which makes it pretty expensive to just even make. Adding on the factor of low production numbers, this will probably push it cost to at least 60-80 million plus (USD). If J-20 is produced in large numbers, it will probably not be too much higher than this. When the price is almost the same, why pick the old and backward one?

This is really interesting to think about.

J-20 has a long long way to go before operational. Carrier is very complicated to operate. There's rumor about PLA's cooperation with Brazilian Navy to learn it. It's why PLA needs J-15 and Varyag to train its pilots and carrier crew.
J-20's wing area is not large enough. Its wing loading should be decreased to land on carrier. J-20's prospect to become shipborne is promising.
BTW, why all my posts go away? They are not all off topic!
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
J-20 has a long long way to go before operational. Carrier is very complicated to operate. There's rumor about PLA's cooperation with Brazilian Navy to learn it. PLA needs fighter to train its pilots and carrier crew before J-20 could go into service.

Yes yes we all know how much the PLAN needs in to learn to operate carriers and how the J-20 is still under development etc but that does not stop the potential for a naval variant to be developed in conjunction with the land based version nor does inexperience with carrier ops prohibit development of a carrier J-20 by any means...
A fighter landing and taking off from a carrier is the easy part of operating a flat top. organizing the planes and logisitics and the battle group is the hard part.

J-20's wing area is not large enough. Its wing loading should be decreased to land on carrier.

How do you know this?

BTW, why all my posts go away? They are not all off topic!

Well popeye must've thought they were.
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
J-20 has a long long way to go before operational. Carrier is very complicated to operate. There's rumor about PLA's cooperation with Brazilian Navy to learn it. It's why PLA needs J-15 and Varyag to train its pilots and carrier crew.
J-20's wing area is not large enough. Its wing loading should be decreased to land on carrier. J-20's prospect to become shipborne is promising.
BTW, why all my posts go away? They are not all off topic!

Um. If you haven't notice that most carrier combat aircraft have bigger wing area than their ground based counter parts. Look among the F-35 variants, the carrier variant has bigger wing area than the other 2.
 
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