J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

Back to the topic, I claim that J-20 is not fighter-bomber, even some compare it to F-15E's "jobscope", is because even (if) USAF's F-15E can not do an airsupiority job as good as dedicated F-15s, it is OK for USAF, that no other guys can really challenging the already not-so-good-air-combating F-15E.

Look back to PLAF, who owns the sky? When USAF take the sky for granted everytime they enters the battlefield, PLAF need to fight every inch of it to at least clear the "flys" (the insect) from ground force's head.

The job of "sink US aircraft carrier" can wait, clear the threat of "my plane can not go to certain area to conduct mission" first.

Besides, even for the USAF or USAN, the ones actually doing the job of "sink enemy's ship" , is not F-15E kind of guy, it is A-6 or F/A-18E/F kind of good-for-nothing-air-combat planes. This statistic fact don't even ring some bells in some of you guy's head?

Very good to hear from you, Red___Sword!

Red___Sword said:

Back to the topic, I claim that J-20 is not fighter-bomber, even some compare it to F-15E's "jobscope", is because even (if) USAF's F-15E can not do an airsupiority job as good as dedicated F-15s, it is OK for USAF, that no other guys can really challenging the already not-so-good-airsup F-15E.

Look back to PLAF, who owns the sky? When USAF take the sky for granted everytime they enters the battlefield, PLAF need to fight every inch of it to at least clear the "flys" (the insect) from ground force's head.

The job of "sink US aircraft carrier" can wait, clear the threat of "my plane can not go to certain area to conduct mission" first.

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Well J-20 won't be a fighter bomber in so many words... But it'll be able to carry PGMs internally which won't sacrafice any of the J-20's role in air superiority apart from the lack of air to air missiles in the strike load out. Fitting in the avionics for strike won't intefere with the air superiority role either... But it definitely won't have the strike capabilities of the F-15E. It will probably be as capable as the F-22 in strike, being capable to hold FT series bombs and LS series bombs too.

Red_Sword, you make a good point but China is far more likely to tangle with the Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean, or Vietnamese air forces before the USAF. In those match-ups, China looks much stronger and there is less need for a pure air superiority fighter. The F-15's development had the creed "not a pound to air-to-ground", but the eventually adapted it into the air force's premier strike fighter. I think it would be wise to have a strong air-to-ground/ship capability built into the J-20, at least capable of launching cruise missiles and dropping PGBs. Sure it won't be dropping cluster bombs or shooting rockets, but that stuff is for planes of a bygone-era.

Geographer said:

Red_Sword, you make a good point but China is far more likely to tangle with the Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean, or Vietnamese air forces before the USAF. In those match-ups, China looks much stronger and there is less need for a pure air superiority fighter. The F-15's development had the creed "not a pound to air-to-ground", but the eventually adapted it into the air force's premier strike fighter. I think it would be wise to have a strong air-to-ground/ship capability built into the J-20, at least capable of launching cruise missiles and dropping PGBs. Sure it won't be dropping cluster bombs or shooting rockets, but that stuff is for planes of a bygone-era.

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Now that's how I like people to discuss military issues - you don't get away with political issues at first place!

Put in this way, someone invaded Poland, what would you think th Russia will do? Someone invaded Italy, what would you think the France will do? Someone invaded Irland, what would you think the UK will do?

They will NOT sit back! For they will instantly feel their national security has been raped - even the invading party assures to these guys (Russia, France, UK) that his only intention is to beat the crap out of their neighbor, no harm would come to them...

Now if you know what I am talking about, you would agree this:

For the US and A, it do not sit until someone has invaded Mexico to response, for uncle Sam got the biggest guns. As long as someone (just) start emerging at the other side of the earth, uncle Sam is already feel unconfortablely chanllenged. If he think there is a chance to wreck this opponent at someone else's home (3rd party's home), uncle Sam will not let this opportunity slip.

So you are suggesting (IF) China beat the crap out of S.Korea, or Japan, that US and A will not do something - you watched too many Hollywood Movie.

The thing is, no matter what USA will think, I am 120% sure that P.R.C has been / is / and always will be, planing anything and any matter, that take into account of USA's mess up / back stab.

See, you ("you" means SD forum) can't talk about a jet fighter's (J-20) true potential - without a serious look into political matters at first place.

This is how Chinese military fans discuss about military issues back to China's internet forums.

@ Red__Sword, I don't think you understood geographer's post... And you're reading way too much into otherwise irrelevant topics.
The political landscape does have an influence on what missions military equipment like fighter jets would have, but that's a given for us, and everyone on SDF have had a serious look into political matters already, but there's only so much the details will matter. In the end we know who the potential enemies can be, that's it.

And I don't see how what you mentioned, has anything to do with whether the J-20 has strike capabilities at all... Actually based on the tone of what you said the logical inference would be that you believe the J-20 does have strike capabilities.

Could you clairfy your position on that?

Geographer said:

Red_Sword, you make a good point but China is far more likely to tangle with the Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean, or Vietnamese air forces before the USAF. In those match-ups, China looks much stronger and there is less need for a pure air superiority fighter. The F-15's development had the creed "not a pound to air-to-ground", but the eventually adapted it into the air force's premier strike fighter. I think it would be wise to have a strong air-to-ground/ship capability built into the J-20, at least capable of launching cruise missiles and dropping PGBs. Sure it won't be dropping cluster bombs or shooting rockets, but that stuff is for planes of a bygone-era.

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Again, at the situation of being risked to be back stabed by USA, what's required for China to beat Vietnam's crap out? Vietnam is possibly having least chances of getting America's aid - yet even so, what would required for China to win?

China is required to reserve THE BEST of any thing - the best army divisions, the best naval fleet, the best air wings, and don't even bother to use 2nd Artillary. - reserve these, to defend against any one from back stabing.

So, if I do not uses J-20, do I lack the ability of air-to-ground firepower? I guess you guys are too fancy about 4th / 5th gen fighters that forget who carrys the big gun.

H-6G (J,K...) and JH-7 will do.

And if you askes that H-6 and JH-7 can not response that rapidly as (if) J-20B will do, why not uses stealth fighter-bomber to deliver even more lethal blow?

Well, PLA got this long tradition of "not relying on fire support". So even I have to bleed a little more ground soilders at Vietnam, I will still reserve the lethal blow to the US fleet (whom trying to back stabing). At that point, dropping F-35 and F-22 with J-20 and let H-6 do their job - is still more effecient than let J-20B running virtually suicidal attack-runs towards an intact US fleet air dominance area.

My point maybe a little intimidating - that the whole world do not think anyone can tear the US fleet's (airbase's) air-dominance at first place, so that anyone intend to attack US fleet (airbase) CAN ONLY uses assassin style of attack runs, so that J-20 GOT TO BE assassin style of fighter-bomber, that there is NO WAY for J-20 to do something like BATTLE FOR BRITAIN, taking over the air-dominance from the Germans, and let B-25 and B-29 to do the rest of the job at a later day...

Or maybe the "experts" are just not THAT BOLD enough to imaging.

Bltizo said:

@ Red__Sword, I don't think you understood geographer's post... And you're reading way too much into otherwise irrelevant topics.
The political landscape does have an influence on what missions military equipment like fighter jets would have, but that's a given for us, and everyone on SDF have had a serious look into political matters already, but there's only so much the details will matter. In the end we know who the potential enemies can be, that's it.

And I don't see how what you mentioned, has anything to do with whether the J-20 has strike capabilities at all... Actually based on the tone of what you said the logical inference would be that you believe the J-20 does have strike capabilities.

Could you clairfy your position on that?

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I hope my #1387 makes a little clarification.

Off topic

And popeye, sorry / pleased to be the good / bad news bearer (depending on how you judge it): This forum is kind of famous to Chinese military forums, so people actually silently watch your discussions. Some like your proffessioncy (compare to youtube's comments threads), some hate to discover even proffessional people like you guys are still THAT MUCH of alien to this nation.

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Ahh thank you..I am humbled.

I know professional mods in this forum do not like off topic stuff, but do you really believe you can paint a picture without brush; eat steak without salt; discuss military thread without touching policital issue?

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I'm not changing the forum rules. When the "salt, vinegar and soy sauce" is added usually it is a very heavy portion.

off topic over..

bd popeye said:

Off topic



Ahh thank you..I am humbled.



I'm not changing the forum rules. When the "salt, vinegar and soy sauce" is added usually it is a very heavy portion.

off topic over..

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Well thanks for not deleting those posts.

By the way, I guess people missed my another claim at #1377, at page 92.