FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
Wow... Good and justify comments. All participants given their fair judgements.
J-20... The New Generation Fighter II
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Wow... Good and justify comments. All participants given their fair judgements.
Re: J-20 matches F-22 in front-profile and may exceed F-22 in side-profile stealth
It seems to me that the scale of J-20 and F-22 in the front view is not the same. The distance from the top of the fuselage to the tip of the tail plane should be larger in F-22 than J-20, so F-22 should be larger, and have an even worse signature.
Left-half of picture is China's J-20. Right half is U.S. F-22.
(Note the J-20 air-inlet has been better integrated into the fuselage than the F-22's gap between the air-inlet and fuselage.)
I have two observations. Firstly, as shown in the spliced-photo above, I believe that I have been proven correct that the J-20 matches the F-22's frontal profile in stealth design.
Above: Picture of sleek J-20 with small tailfins.
Below: Picture of sleek F-22 with large tailfins.
Secondly, the F-22 may have tailfins that are significantly larger than the J-20. Given the increased surface area to reflect radar, this raises the possibility that the F-22 may have a higher side-profile stealth signature than the J-20 and is more vulnerable to bi-static or multistatic radar systems.
Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the photographs.
It seems to me that the scale of J-20 and F-22 in the front view is not the same. The distance from the top of the fuselage to the tip of the tail plane should be larger in F-22 than J-20, so F-22 should be larger, and have an even worse signature.
Roger604
Senior Member
Re: China's indigenous jet engines, including for J-20, perform within reasonable nor
The silver nozzle engine is probably a Chinese indigenous variant of the AL-31F for infrared reduction. The petals are longer and more slender on the AL-31F than on the WS-10. So these silver ones are more consistent with AL-31F as mentioned before in this thread.
There's nothing wrong with WS-10, it's currently used on J-11B's. It's just that for political reasons CAC doesn't want it.
I think WS-10 series is not China's only indigenous engine. CAC doesn't like SAC or Shenyang Liming, so they got their own Chengdu factory to reverse-engineer AL-31F while extending its service life. Now China makes its own AL-31F variants, which are used in J-10's, J-10B prototype and J-20 prototype. That's why China's never buys AL-31F from Russia anymore, but seems to have an unlimited supply of them.
The silver nozzle engine is probably a Chinese indigenous variant of the AL-31F for infrared reduction. The petals are longer and more slender on the AL-31F than on the WS-10. So these silver ones are more consistent with AL-31F as mentioned before in this thread.
There's nothing wrong with WS-10, it's currently used on J-11B's. It's just that for political reasons CAC doesn't want it.
andyhugfan
Banned Idiot
Seems that this thread is dying a bit. All availiable info and discussions has been posted allready. No extra flights in the next few weeks or so?
Come on guys ... just help me out a bit ! 
... maybe I missed a bit.
All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.
I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.
Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??
Deino
... maybe I missed a bit.All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.
I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.
Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??
Deino
Come on guys ... just help me out a bit !
All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.
I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.
Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??
Deino
We are just speculating Deino, there is no proof. I think we are all desperately trying to explain why AL-31s are being used on China's latest and greatest. So far no answer seems to suffice.
I think it's pretty sensible. The AL-31 has been a proven engine for many years, while the WS-10 has only just recently been equipped on the J-11B. Designing a plane has to take the powerplant into consideration, so you can't just go "hey, the WS-10's ready now, let's swap it in by next month." The J-20 prototype must have been designed to fit the AL-31 for years now. I'm almost certain that the REAL first flight was conducted with the AL-31. If the public first flight was using the WS-1x, then the real first flight must've occurred many months ago to allow for time to fitting a new engine.
Who wants to buy a J-20 scale model?
apparently the term fy js (without the space in between) triggers some sort of filter and gets changed into ****.... so yes it's js.cn without the space. I'll look into this problem.
apparently the term fy js (without the space in between) triggers some sort of filter and gets changed into ****.... so yes it's js.cn without the space. I'll look into this problem.
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airsuperiority
Captain
it is also possible, that the WS-15 are for final productions, so there are 2 versions. one is AL-31F, and one is WS-10G or something. or maybe even WS-10A and WS-10G(the one that looks like AL-31F) are the ones currently available. Maybe WS-15 and WS-10G or AL-31F shares certain similarities, therefore one of the of platform is for experimental purposes with the new engine technology that aims to resemble WS-15 in the future. After they've gotten everything ready, I'm quite sure the final production models will be using the WS-15, and since the current is a prototype, it's almost quite certain we will see some further changes that accomodates the WS-15. another thing is, it is possible the airframes of both prototypes are different in some ways, such as length and weight and engine accomodation. we should keep our eyes open n watch further
Roger604
Senior Member
According to the Jane's article, they already extended the service life of AL-31F by a large factor. Presumably this means they replaced key components like the turbine blades. It seems they know this engine in and out so well that it's not difficult to produce a replica or improved variant.Come on guys ... just help me out a bit !
All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.
I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.
Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??
Deino
The Russians probably won't make an outcry because China is not selling the AL-31F to other countries. It will probably take Russians years to come to realize China has already reverse engineered AL-31F.
It's pretty obvious to me the fact that SAC is using FWS10 while CAC is using AL-31F is no mere coincidence. This is all politics! There are too many AL-31F variants running around (not matching ) confirming the existence of "indigenous AL-31F."
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