J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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Martian

Senior Member
J-20 has supercruise feature

does anyone know if J20 have supercruise capability? In my opinion that would be a huge variable in determining the size/range of it's design based on PLAAF's strategic plan to use this platform as an air to air area denial vehicle out to the 1st island chain.

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"J-20 stealth fighter jet technology 'innovative'
08:33, January 25, 2011

Chinese defense officials and military analysts insisted Monday that the country's J-20 stealth fighter jet is a result of technological innovation, refuting a report that alleges the aircraft was developed out of technology gleaned from a downed US fighter.

SBlpo.jpg

J-20 stealth fighter jet​

A Croatian admiral who served during the Kosovo War told the AP on Sunday that China formulated the technology for its J-20 jet from a F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.

"At the time, our intelligence reports told of Chinese agents criss-crossing the region where the F-117 disintegrated, buying up parts of the plane from local farmers," Admiral Davor Domazet-Loso was quoted as saying. "We believe the Chinese used those materials to gain an insight into secret stealth technologies."

An official at the Ministry of National Defense who declined to be named told the Global Times that "it's not the first time foreign media has smeared newly unveiled Chinese military technologies. It's meaningless to respond to such speculations."

China successfully debuted the J-20 in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, earlier this month. The test flight coincided with US Defense Secretary Robert Gates' visit to Beijing, but he was assured the timing was just a coincidence.

Following the successful test flight, speculations and assessments of Beijing's military advancement could be heard throughout the world.

Xu Yongling, one of China's top test pilots, told the Global Times that the J-20 possesses an advanced supersonic cruise ability and powerful air mobility that are technological breakthroughs for the country.

"Different from previous fighters such as the J-7 and J-8, which drew on the merits of aircrafts from other countries, the J-20 is a masterpiece of China's technological innovation," Xu said, comparing the stealth jet to the US Air Force's F-22 Raptor stealth jet and Russia's first stealth fighter, the Sukhoi T-50.

Xu said it would have been impossible for China to glean technology from the US' F-117, whose stealth technology lags far behind fourth-generation fighters and was regarded as "outdated" even at the time when it was reportedly shot down.

And as for the radiation-absorbent, exterior coating technology adopted by the F-117, Xu said it would be hard to copy that technology from the wreckage due to its complicated production process.

Developed in the 1970s and commencing service in 1983, the F-117 Nighthawk was the world's first stealth fighter - nearly invisible to radar.

In March 1999, during NATO's aerial bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo War, a Serbian anti-aircraft missile shot one of the Nighthawks down. An editorial published by the Taiwan-based China Times on Saturday said that the shooting

Parts of the downed F-117 wreckage - including the left wing with the US Air Force insignia, the cockpit canopy, the ejection seat, the pilot's helmet and a radio - are exhibited at Belgrade's aviation museum, according to an AP report.

"I don't know what happened to the rest of the plane," said Zoran Milicevic, deputy director of the museum, according to the AP. "A lot of delegations visited us in the past, including the Chinese, Rus-sians and Americans ... but no one showed any interest in taking any part of the jet."

Wang Yanan, an associate editor in chief at Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times that the F-117 could hardly have inspired the development of the J-20, due to the design differences between the two generations of fighters. He added that it is worthless to take an interest in obsolete technology for developing more state-of-art technologies.

"Despite being dubbed a stealth fighter, the F-117 functioned as a bomber because of its low speed and limited air attacking abilities, while the J-20, more resembling the F-22, is designed to have a powerful air attacking capability with a fast flying speed," Wang said.

Responding to the accusations about China's stealing of new technologies, Wang conceded that, as a forerunner for new technologies, the US can only provide a reference point for other countries but will never leak any details about the technologies, leaving many countries to develop weapons on their own or buy them from another country.

The US has, in recent years, stepped up its offensive against what it calls "Chinese tech spying." The FBI increased its agents assigned to counter alleged Chinese espionage from 150 in 2001 to more than 350 in 2007, USA Today reported.

Separately, Noshir Gowadia, an Indian-born former B-2 bomber engineer convicted of helping China design a stealth cruise missile, was due to be sentenced in court today.

Li Daguang, a Beijing-based military analyst, told the Global Times that such accusations are groundless and originate from envy and wariness of China's technological advancements.

"China not only has the freedom to develop high-end technologies but also the capability to develop them independently," he said.

Zhu Shanshan and Huang Jingjing contributed to this story

Source: Global Times"

Note: Thank you to Brotherhood for the newslink.
 
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delft

Brigadier
Mr Gowadia had left Northrop fifteen years before he first went to China. I think he had no secrets to sell and of course any secrets sold couldn't be mentioned in the court. I think he is going to jail to prove to the US public that US technology will always be superior to anyone else's.
 

raysimlee

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Story sounds unlikely, think they nailed him up for something else...USD 11K for intel? That's kinda cheap if you ask me.

Yes either the engineer is really hard up for money or it is yet another drum up charge by CIA. Warning for those who want to visit China.
 

raysimlee

Just Hatched
Registered Member
According to what I read it is design for super-cruse. Also from what I read China tried super-cruise on J10 but the engine only last a few hours. Engine is still the main drag on development. China do not seem to have any deficiency in aerodynamic design. The only stumbling block for engine is on high temperature turbine blade manufacture technology.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
According to what I read it is design for super-cruse. Also from what I read China tried super-cruise on J10 but the engine only last a few hours. Engine is still the main drag on development. China do not seem to have any deficiency in aerodynamic design. The only stumbling block for engine is on high temperature turbine blade manufacture technology.

I don't know where you read it but seem to be old news or unsubstantiated rumour spread in the internet. Recently China commended one of the senior scientist for excellent work on exactly first stage turbine blade material .I saw the ceremony on CCTV and they show the picture of first stage turbine blade

Stealth jet team proves its metal

Stephen Chen
Jan 15, 2011 SCMP.com

Metallurgist Shi Changxu won a top national science award yesterday for his contribution to the development of high-performance jet engines - three days after the first public test flight of the mainland's J-20 stealth fighter plane.

Professor Shi, former director of the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Institute of Metal Research in Shenyang, developed several families of top-secret, heat-resistant alloys, according to mainland scientists working on jet engines.

The secret alloys were developed decades ago, but because jet engine metals take a long time to test, Shi's alloys have only recently begun to be used in the mainland's jet engines.

In 1955, Shi left his teaching post at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and boarded a ship for the East. He was one of 30 or so Chinese scientists held by the United States government to prevent them from returning to communist China. Shi left the US about the same time as Qian Xuesen, a rocket scientist from the California Institute of Technology, who later founded the Chinese space programme.

After he landed in Shanghai, Shi was immediately sent to Shenyang, a heavy industry base in the northeast province of Liaoning, to boost steel production. Beijing's relationship with Moscow then soured rapidly and the Russians stopped helping their old ally develop fighter jets. The military turned to Shi for help.

With hard work, genius and luck, Shi not only came up with the required alloys using the traditional approach he learned in the West, but also devised something entirely new.

The laboratory performance of the new alloys was so good that no one dared to use them. For safety concerns, plane designers stuck with traditional alloys for China's mass-produced jet engines, whose performance lagged significantly behind their overseas counterparts.

Shi's alloys then began a long march for industrial acceptance. Only recently, with their application in some of the mainland's most advanced fighter jets such as the J-20, have designers fully accepted them.

Professor Zhang Lanting, from the school of materials science and engineering at Shanghai Jiaotong University, said the mainland's aviation material science sector had been waiting too long for this award.

Some people thought China did not have the materials to make high-performance jet engines, but they were wrong, Zhang said.
"The fact is, we have lots of top-quality materials, but to convince plane designers to use them we need to test it for decades - normally 30 years - for absolute safety," he said. "Within 10 years Chinese engines will begin to replace foreign ones in the civilian sector. In the military sector the replacement has already begun."

Professor Wu Suojun, a specialist in new materials at Beihang University, China's top aviation research institute, said the mainland was quickly narrowing the technological gap with the world's leading engine makers.

"With the successful test flight of the J-20 and other new planes, it is time to reward the heroes behind the scenes," Wu said.
 

Martian

Senior Member
WS-10 engine has a MTBO of over 500 hours

According to what I read it is design for super-cruse. Also from what I read China tried super-cruise on J10 but the engine only last a few hours. Engine is still the main drag on development. China do not seem to have any deficiency in aerodynamic design. The only stumbling block for engine is on high temperature turbine blade manufacture technology.

According to Chinese sources, the WS-10 lasts over 500 hours before requiring an overhaul and not the few hours that you're claiming.

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"The main power plants are two AL-31F engines that provide great maneuverability and thrust. Range can be extended with the in flight refueling probe. Domestic Chinese resources have claimed that the Chinese engine WS-10 with higher mean time between overhaul can also be used, but this is yet to be confirmed by the official sources and sources outside China. Due to the intense flight training in Chinese hands, the average mean time between overhaul of AL-31F was only slightly above 500 hours, significantly lower than its western counterparts, the same problem reportedly encountered by Indian Air Force for its Su-30MKI fleet."
 
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