Simple answer is, the cancellation never happened to begin with.
Money and plane aren't ready yet.
Ruaf simply suffers from its complete inability to spend money effectively.
Hopefully, they will learn their lesson.
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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Money and plane aren't ready yet.
Ruaf simply suffers from its complete inability to spend money effectively.
Hopefully, they will learn their lesson.
Yes Sir! its not even a close contest, I have NO idea where people come with these "alternative universe" conclusions! In any event, had the J-20's been allowed to use the F-22 tactics, the result would have been polar opposite to what they ended up with. This exercise is designed to allow Chinese 4th Gen operators, (3rd Gen Chinese) to get up close and personal with OPFOR's 5 Gen's and see that they can be defeated WVR. It is a confidence building training, if you are flying 4th generation aircraft you will definitely need AWAC's and EW aircraft help to defeat a 5th Gen aircraft...
So, if the J-20's were operating as they have been designed to operate, those 4Gens would have bitten the dust shortly behind their AWAC/EW aircraft, or possibly before?? I don't know specific operating parameters/protocol, but that's how it would go down in real life.....
On another note, I think the details of this most recent reported exercise with the J-20 is really interesting. It could suggest that the PLAAF is trying to rigorously, methodically, and systemically assess and study, condition by condition, piece by piece, what scenarios it can win against 5th generation fighters using more traditional assets and what scenarios are absolutely untenable for them. I imagine that the data, insights, and experiences collected in these excercises won’t just be used to develop new tactics or calibrate their current systems, but to come up with entirely new hardware and systems concepts. I wouldn’t be surprised if all these games and tests with the J-20 fundamentally changes the way the PLA as a whole (not just the PLAAF) thinks about doctrine, force structure, and planning, and not just in terms of procuring more stealth fighters and networked assets. We could be in for even more surprises in the next decade than we experienced in the last.
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
Please don’t take this as disrespectful, but isnt that what the PLAAF have always done with any new gen weapons system they bring online?
That’s the whole mission of the blue force pilots who always get the newest toys before red regulars and spend as much time beating up red force with said new toys as they do teaching red force how to fight against opponents with similar advanced weapons.
This can also be an assessment, of how much opposing counterstealth assets can a few 5th gens tie down, even when the 5th gens are at WVR. The cost advantage of the 5th gens is overwhelming, whether considering the disproportionate kill ratios at BVR or the havoc delivered at WVR.
Yes, of course, but I feel this process with the J-20 is particularly noteworthy because I’ve always gotten the feeling that with previous systems testing the PLAAF’s findings were more or less in line with their theories and thoughts about new systems and their impacts on doctrine, force planning, and tactics, and I’m now getting the feeling that this time around their findings are a lot less straightforward, which naturally will create new and more demanding test conditions.
That this is happening now would be consistent with the fact that as the organization trying to play catch up a lot of the PLA’s previous thoughts and theories were strongly informed by their study of the experiences of other countries, which naturally provide an already validated stock of knowledge, but with the J-20 (and probably many other next generation weapons systems) the PLA is now in a very different position as one of a tiny handful of militaries at the forefront of operating new technologies, which in turn means operational testing and development becomes much more open ended, and insights will be more dependent on self learning and self generation. Testing, gaming, analysis, and theoretical and tactical development shifts over from the logic of study to the dynamics of discovery, which puts the PLAAF in the position of having to make new ground in military thinking rather than deriving from old ground.
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Wanted to edit this paragraph in a way that might clarify what I wanted to say more (multitasking at work isn’t conducive to the clearest thoughts).
“Yes, of course, but I feel this process with the J-20 is particularly noteworthy because I’ve always gotten the feeling that with previous systems testing the PLAAF’s findings were more or less in line with their *expectations and predictions about new systems and their impacts on doctrine, force planning, and tactics, and I’m now getting the feeling that this time around their findings *aren’t conforming to expectations and predictions nearly as much, which naturally will create new and more demanding test conditions.
Yep. To be a bit more clear I’m trying to draw some attention to how the J-20 will probably impact the PLA’s entire complex of systems and their thinking about such things, not just the design in of itself.
I do agree with you, but I also think that such "transformative" systems have been introduced to the PLA in the past (even recent past depending on how one sees it), such as having their first BVR fighter, first AEW&C etc, all of which I expected would've been followed by the same kind of methodical assessment you described for the introduction of their first 5th gen fighters as well.
Photo of the original article in the Chinese Air Force magazine.
Nice.
There are additional pages to it, including the title cover. Via LJK over on PDF
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