Hyperwarp
Captain
He could do a sketch and post a pic of the sketch.
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
- Start date
- Status
He could do a sketch and post a pic of the sketch.
Anyways, I'm guessing what happened is that gongke101 saw the silver nozzle but mistook it for the AL-31F nozzle. That's why he assumed that the J-20 was flying with the WS-15 the entire time; the nozzle is probably quite similar to the AL-31F nozzle, except with one less petal.
From gongke101, we can deduce that the J-20 is getting ready for test flights with some prototype of the WS-15. I'd guess that a public flight of the 15 petal WS-15 will occur within a year.
From gongke101, we can deduce that the J-20 is getting ready for test flights with some prototype of the WS-15. I'd guess that a public flight of the 15 petal WS-15 will occur within a year.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
No. Many people have seen the WS-15 *nozzle* that’s intended to be installed on the J-20. You’re ignoring the first part of his post where he says not many people have seen the WS-15 in its entirety.
You’re not crazy. Inst is trying to interpret Chinese by overspeculating its meaning with piecemeal translations while ignoring actual input from native Chinese speakers (again).
I’m going to do a full translation because clearly this partial intepretation stuff using machine translations is creating a lot of confusion.
“最近3年大部分人是没机会看见15整机了，不过许多人还是有机会看见装在20上的15的菊花的，想知道是什么发动机就数一下菊花上的外调节片，太行18片，31f是16片，如果你部署错一数就知道是15了，狂简单.”
“In the past three years most people haven’t had the opportunity to see the WS-15 in its entirety, but many have had the opportunity to see the nozzle of the WS-15 [that would be] installed on the J-20. If you want to know what the engine is you just need to count the number of petals on the nozzle. The Taihang has 18 petals, the 31F has 16 petals, if you don’t count wrong you’ll know it’s the WS-15 just by counting. Extremely simple.”
The confusion about whether the WS-15 has already been installed on the J-20 emerges from the lack of tenses in the Chinese language and from how Chinese can use entire phrases as modifiers by using a 的， 得, or 地 particle. In “装在20上的15的菊花“ “装在20上的” is one whole adjective phrase meant to modify the adjective phrase “15的” which is meant to modify “菊花”, so in essence “装在20上的15” means “the WS-15 that is/will be/has been installed on the J-20”, so “装在20上的15的菊花” should be “the petals of the WS-15 that is/has been/will be installed on the J-20”.
The grammatical context of that clause doesn’t suggest the WS-15 has *already* been installed on the J-20. The “installed on J-20” bit isn’t an independent and active clause meant to connote an actual action or event, but a dependent conditional clause specifically being used to delineate the specific version of the WS-15’s nozzles he’s talking about, in this case the version of the WS-15’s nozzles that will be installed on the J-20. Some context from a cjdby thread that Klon shared earlier in this forum’s engines thread might help here, wherein Gongke makes mention that the WS-15 nozzle intended to be installed on the J-20 is different from the one used for testing. If I have time in the next few days and this comment is still an issue I might go dig up that thread, but you’re all encouraged to peruse it for yourself.
As for petal count, Gongke doesn’t actually say at all the WS-15 has 15 petals, or even come close to suggest how many petals it actually has. All he’s implying is that the WS-15 doesn’t have 16 petals or 18 petals. In the clause “如果你部署错一数就知道是15了” (if you don’t count wrong just counting will tell you it’s [the] [ws-15]) if the 15 was referring to the petal count and wasn’t just a conventional shorthand for the WS-15 like in the earlier part of his comment (and his other comments as well as the comments of other forum members) he’d have used a measure word, and the sentence would have instead been “如果你部署错一数就知道是15片”.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Thanks a lot for that detailed break-down man.
Do you even know how to read Chinese?
Sure. Show us. Not that that actually counts for much though. I’ve met my share of HSK certificate holders who consistently embarrass themselves by misunderstanding common conversation. Most of the decent ones acknowledge their own linguist shortcomings and are modest about getting help from native speakers. The bad ones act like a certificate qualifies them to be flawless interpreters of a language that they’ve only just learned recently.
Here's the thing, use your brain. In the last section of the text, Gongke states more or less that you can determine whether it's a WS-15 by counting the petals on the nozzle. Moving it back to previous sentences, he states that people have seen the nozzle installed on the J-20. He's being ambiguous; you can put in the brackets if you want, but in the full context of the text it's obvious that he means that you can tell that the WS-15 is installed by petal count, and that people have already seen the WS-15 nozzle, hence the WS-15 is installed on the J-20.
Obviously, having checked something like 200 pictures of the J-20, I can't seem to find a 15 petal nozzle on the J-20. Gongke101 is mistaken in that the 15 petal J-20 nozzle does not unambiguously show up on previous J-20s. But Gongke101 gets it wrong too. Within the total thread, he mentions once that the WS-15 has a military thrust between 160 and 200 kN, when the F119 only achieves 117 kN military thrust. It is obvious here that he means afterburner thrust, not military thrust.
Obviously, having checked something like 200 pictures of the J-20, I can't seem to find a 15 petal nozzle on the J-20. Gongke101 is mistaken in that the 15 petal J-20 nozzle does not unambiguously show up on previous J-20s. But Gongke101 gets it wrong too. Within the total thread, he mentions once that the WS-15 has a military thrust between 160 and 200 kN, when the F119 only achieves 117 kN military thrust. It is obvious here that he means afterburner thrust, not military thrust.
- Status