J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[jobjed]

What if the J-20 was carrying luneburg lenses? Or what if the J-20 can actively vary its RCS? Or simply by openning the weapons bay doors or deploying the airbrakes will cause a spike in the RCS. F-22 pilots use this stratergy of deliberately opening weapons bay doors to fool and trap aggressor F-15s and F-16s. Plus, If the Su-30 RADAR was turned on, and worse on full power in non-training mode, then that would have been a goldmine for the PLAAF. The 360' passive sensors of the J-20 would have picked up a thing or two so, the IAF better not start celebrating too soon. They may have played right to the hands of the PLAAF here.

Who posts a dogshit-tier Indian "article" and expects it to be taken seriously when the author can't even string sentences together?

The article title should really be "Indian military officer, typical of his kind, makes grandiose remarks in failed attempt to veil debilitating inferiority complex."

 

[Deino]

Nicely fitting to the other recent report from out well known Colonel on the Y-20s! ... I think we really need a facepalm icon here.

 

[ougoah]

Its a blatant lie and propaganda by IAF chief that su-30 radar could detect J-20 just appease some people in the office, and lie to general Indian public.

There are people out there so blinded by their chauvinism to think this is real?
The best AESA radar detection ranges are no more than 400-500km in range for huge RCS targets. How close to the Indian border do they think PLAAF flew J-20s. By the article's own claim, the exercise of J-20s was in the Tibetan plateau which would be at least 1000km within Chinese airspace. If they are using ground based anti-stealth radars (which they don't currently possess nor have Indian industries demonstrated the ability to build any decent radars for tracking and targeting LOs) then those ranges are still not enough without even considering obstacles like the himalayas. They don't have S-400 either which claims to be able to target stealth aircrafts but that's quite unlikely. So we're left with mystery radar the Indians used.

Next, how did they determine the target is in fact a J-20 and not something else? Are they using quantum radars? lol

Finally, how do they know whether J-20 were flying without luneburg lense like every photo of J-20 shows?

If anything, reports like this coming from such an authority figure is allowed to pass in the public, it proves the effort to mislead the Indian public is strong and quite dangerous. It's going to be unsurprising that the vast majority of Indian military followers will believe this sort of tripe without the slightest moment of doubt. Sad.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

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So the IAF confirmed that the J-20 was being deployed on the Sino-Indian border.

Now lets examine this article logically in a hypothetical situation. The first thing to know is that the stealth mentioned is not what we think it is, it is not a Harry Potter esque total "I can't see you even if you are up in my face" type stealth.
Every aviation expert will tell you that stealth merely reduces the range at which the plane is detected. And at some point even obsolete radar systems will pick up a stealth fighter like the F-22 or in this case the J-20.
In this situation the claim that the Su-30 might be able to pick up the J-20 is not complete fallacy, as the PESA radar on the Su-30s are still quite capable systems. But the article omits that if the Su-30 could see the J-20, then the J-20 can most assuredly see it back, most likely long before the Su-30 can pick it up. Even 4th gen fighters have passive detecting systems like radar lock on warnings, so it is quite reasonable to believe that the J-20s are equipped with such systems. Plus with modern AA missiles coming in multi flavor choices to include radiation homing seekers, a Su-30 using its radar at full strength is very vulnerable to a J-20 totting such missiles.
But there are other ways for 4th gen fighters to take on 5th gen fighters effectively, but this requires very coordinated efforts from multiple platforms like EW and AWACS planes.
Plus 3rd party sources have established that the J-20 RCS design on the front and sides is an effective and matured one.

 

[ougoah]

Exactly. Also I have a hard time believing that the J-20 was operating near the Sino-Indian border.

There's no way PLAAF is moronic enough to fly J-20 anywhere near any borders (reminds me of that stupid claim months back about J-20 flying through Korea )
They won't give the Indians a chance to take a free look and evaluation of J-20 during peacetime. If J-20 is near Indian borders, it'll there to drop and fire ordinance. Any less than that, it's far within Chinese borders. PLAAF has Su-35 for the tit-for-tat border mock fighting if it ever escalates to that level with the Indians.

 

[SinoSoldier]

Now lets examine this article logically in a hypothetical situation. The first thing to know is that the stealth mentioned is not what we think it is, it is not a Harry Potter esque total "I can't see you even if you are up in my face" type stealth.
Every aviation expert will tell you that stealth merely reduces the range at which the plane is detected. And at some point even obsolete radar systems will pick up a stealth fighter like the F-22 or in this case the J-20.
In this situation the claim that the Su-30 might be able to pick up the J-20 is not complete fallacy, as the PESA radar on the Su-30s are still quite capable systems. But the article omits that if the Su-30 could see the J-20, then the J-20 can most assuredly see it back, most likely long before the Su-30 can pick it up. Even 4th gen fighters have passive detecting systems like radar lock on warnings, so it is quite reasonable to believe that the J-20s are equipped with such systems. Plus with modern AA missiles coming in multi flavor choices to include radiation homing seekers, a Su-30 using its radar at full strength is very vulnerable to a J-20 totting such missiles.
But there are other ways for 4th gen fighters to take on 5th gen fighters effectively, but this requires very coordinated efforts from multiple platforms like EW and AWACS planes.
Plus 3rd party sources have established that the J-20 RCS design on the front and sides is an effective and matured one.

LOL these articles are not meant to be "examined". What you said is reasonable (and most reasonable air force personnel would formulate their own opinions) but I highly highly highly highly doubt that this IAF "Chief" went through the same mental processes before spewing this garbage.

 

[SinoSoldier]

There's no way PLAAF is moronic enough to fly J-20 anywhere near any borders (reminds me of that stupid claim months back about J-20 flying through Korea )
They won't give the Indians a chance to take a free look and evaluation of J-20 during peacetime. If J-20 is near Indian borders, it'll there to drop and fire ordinance. Any less than that, it's far within Chinese borders. PLAAF has Su-35 for the tit-for-tat mock border mock fighting if it ever escalates to that level with the Indians.

These articles & claims aren't new: in 2016 they claimed to have attained a 12:0 victory over RAF Typhoons during an exercise, in 2011-2012 an IAF official claimed that China built the J-20 with no R&D of her own, last year another IAF official claimed that the Rafale would be sufficient in curbing the J-20, and so on.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

LOL these articles are not meant to be "examined". What you said is reasonable but I highly highly highly highly doubt that this IAF "Chief" went through the same mental processes before spewing this garbage.

Then again, presenting a reasonable argument puts any possible counter points to rest, no matter how ridiculous those are.

 

[ougoah]

Now lets examine this article logically in a hypothetical situation. The first thing to know is that the stealth mentioned is not what we think it is, it is not a Harry Potter esque total "I can't see you even if you are up in my face" type stealth.
Every aviation expert will tell you that stealth merely reduces the range at which the plane is detected. And at some point even obsolete radar systems will pick up a stealth fighter like the F-22 or in this case the J-20.
In this situation the claim that the Su-30 might be able to pick up the J-20 is not complete fallacy, as the PESA radar on the Su-30s are still quite capable systems. But the article omits that if the Su-30 could see the J-20, then the J-20 can most assuredly see it back, most likely long before the Su-30 can pick it up. Even 4th gen fighters have passive detecting systems like radar lock on warnings, so it is quite reasonable to believe that the J-20s are equipped with such systems. Plus with modern AA missiles coming in multi flavor choices to include radiation homing seekers, a Su-30 using its radar at full strength is very vulnerable to a J-20 totting such missiles.
But there are other ways for 4th gen fighters to take on 5th gen fighters effectively, but this requires very coordinated efforts from multiple platforms like EW and AWACS planes.
Plus 3rd party sources have established that the J-20 RCS design on the front and sides is an effective and matured one.

Yes if people can agree it's may be able to see rather than can see, there's a difference. The other difference is that this article clearly words it like they've done it. Which they haven't. It's very obviously a poor propaganda piece that can only be believed by very very naive people. These wishy washy articles are pathetic. First they say it can be done (despite no scientific evidence to support the claim btw claiming something is possible in theory and therefore can be done is not scientific for the technically illiterate readers out there). Then they say stuff like this and that should be able to do something like meh. The ambiguity removes responsibility in journalism but the whole aim of misleading Indian chauvinists is achieved because the gist is J-20 is unstealthy and not a problem for us. Their claim anyway.

If su-30MKI can detect J-20, either J-20 is completely unstealthy and CAC is misleading all of China because China posses many superior radars to Indians. That much is pretty undeniable unless India possesses secret radar technologies that they are hiding very well. Or Bars radar (Irbis on Chinese Su-35 is superior) is able to detect a stealthy J-20. Therefore PLAAF is lying to all of China with their claims that the VLO J-20 is groundbreaking for them and no 4th gen were able to touch it in mock fights. Gee who to believe. The proven manipulator/liar or PLAAF and CAC who have so far seemed to deliver and has so far not been caught out lying... I guess they're just great liars. Indians managed to slaughter Eurofighters and Eagles in all their exerrcises. They must know what they're talking about.

 

[ougoah]

LOL these articles are not meant to be "examined". What you said is reasonable (and most reasonable air force personnel would formulate their own opinions) but I highly highly highly highly doubt that this IAF "Chief" went through the same mental processes before spewing this garbage.

They probably employ politicians and the corruption levels there must make 19th and 20th century Chinese corruption blush. Clearly should have made up slightly more convincing bullshit. But I guess their public will buy it like they buy everything else they feed them. Whatever it takes to keep the current broken machine running. Pity because if they got their act together, there's actually a chance of peace in this region. Increasingly poor and socially problematic India is going to create chaos in this region.

These articles & claims aren't new: in 2016 they claimed to have attained a 12:0 victory over RAF Typhoons during an exercise, in 2011-2012 an IAF official claimed that China built the J-20 with no R&D of her own, last year another IAF official claimed that the Rafale would be sufficient in curbing the J-20, and so on.

about 10 years later since "our eventual Rafales will be able to take on all of PLAAF", still not a single Rafale clearly someone talks and dreams more than they do. The irony is if they managed to get off their ass and actually work things out and improve their nation, there is greater chance of peace and respectful dialogue. At least this way, they're not a serious military or economic threat to the PRC.