J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[ougoah]

Then again, presenting a reasonable argument puts any possible counter points to rest, no matter how ridiculous those are.

This statement does not make sense. Please make it clearer. Sounds like you might have written the article. Great at keeping things opaque and ambiguous huh.

 

[latenlazy]

Can we get back to discussing the J-20.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

This statement does not make sense. Please make it clearer. Sounds like you might have written the article. Great at keeping things opaque and ambiguous huh.

Let us put it this way, even if the opposing side puts up a completely ridiculous claim. Dismissing his claim without addressing the points would only strengthen the other sides opinion that he is right. Now obviously in this case that is not entirely applicable as the author is not present, but you see where I am going here : If you are going to refute an argument you best do it reasonably because it will leave little ground for the opposing side to stand on, instead of just rejecting it wholesale.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Yes if people can agree it's may be able to see rather than can see, there's a difference. The other difference is that this article clearly words it like they've done it. Which they haven't. It's very obviously a poor propaganda piece that can only be believed by very very naive people. These wishy washy articles are pathetic. First they say it can be done (despite no scientific evidence to support the claim btw claiming something is possible in theory and therefore can be done is not scientific for the technically illiterate readers out there). Then they say stuff like this and that should be able to do something like meh. The ambiguity removes responsibility in journalism but the whole aim of misleading Indian chauvinists is achieved because the gist is J-20 is unstealthy and not a problem for us. Their claim anyway.

If su-30MKI can detect J-20, either J-20 is completely unstealthy and CAC is misleading all of China because China posses many superior radars to Indians. That much is pretty undeniable unless India possesses secret radar technologies that they are hiding very well. Or Bars radar (Irbis on Chinese Su-35 is superior) is able to detect a stealthy J-20. Therefore PLAAF is lying to all of China with their claims that the VLO J-20 is groundbreaking for them and no 4th gen were able to touch it in mock fights. Gee who to believe. The proven manipulator/liar or PLAAF and CAC who have so far seemed to deliver and has so far not been caught out lying... I guess they're just great liars. Indians managed to slaughter Eurofighters and Eagles in all their exerrcises. They must know what they're talking about.

I know that, the article stinks of chauvinism that can be smelt a mile away. But there is a kernel of truth in this, that people are overblowing the stealthiness of stealth aircrafts. It is a valuable asset yes, but it is not what people are making it out to be.

 

[ougoah]

These articles & claims aren't new: in 2016 they claimed to have attained a 12:0 victory over RAF Typhoons during an exercise, in 2011-2012 an IAF official claimed that China built the J-20 with no R&D of her own, last year another IAF official claimed that the Rafale would be sufficient in curbing the J-20, and so on.

Let us put it this way, even if the opposing side puts up a completely ridiculous claim. Dismissing his claim without addressing the points would only strengthen the other sides opinion that he is right. Now obviously in this case that is not entirely applicable as the author is not present, but you see where I am going here : If you are going to refute an argument you best do it reasonably because it will leave little ground for the opposing side to stand on, instead of just rejecting it wholesale.

Several people have done just that. Reasonably and with some restraint. Now the person/s making the claim in the article is not present to discuss but the claims have been addressed and just about all reasonable military followers can see that we've done a decent job dismissing the claim.

I know that, the article stinks of chauvinism that can be smelt a mile away. But there is a kernel of truth in this, that people are overblowing the stealthiness of stealth aircrafts. It is a valuable asset yes, but it is not what people are making it out to be.

Some people and organisations may indeed overblow the effectiveness of VLO fighters but this article takes it to another level. Su-30MKI wouldn't even be able to detect a J-8 with every pylon loaded at 300km range let alone detect it, identify it is a J-8, and determine it is not enhancing its signature with LL or some other means. This shows the article and the person claiming it surely cannot be believed because they've essentially destroyed any way to have reasonable dialogue about the issue. If you're already claiming such an outrageous thing, what is there left to say? perhaps, "oh yes our efforts in creating J-20 has now been made completely pointless. China left defenseless and at the mercy of IAF. Indians must therefore be amazing peace loving people to not come in and do as they please". The sad part is this is actually what the article hopes to make certain Indians believe, and they will be successful in it. There probably won't be a day to test the actual abilities of each respective airforces and their equipment. So the usual suspects will parade and shout around the internet as they always do. Certain reasonable folks will see through it though but intelligent people are so far and few between.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Several people have done just that. Reasonably and with some restraint. Now the person/s making the claim in the article is not present to discuss but the claims have been addressed and just about all reasonable military followers can see that we've done a decent job dismissing the claim.

So I will just add my piece to the discussion, it does no harm to explore the matter future.

 

[plawolf]

Was there a new claim by the IAF chief, or is this a new spin on that old quote that the J20 would be detectable from ‘several KM’ away that has been posted and debtabed about ad nauseam already?

 

[ougoah]

Various people within IAF (no specifics given) says J-20 is not a problem for them and suggests that MKI can handle it with no specifics in how and in what sort of capacity. Generally very ambiguous and trying to make it seem like PLAAF can be handled by IAF. I think I glanced through another article that mostly said the same thing in maybe different words, can't remember because I glanced through. Both were short on details but had the confident reassuring tone and implied that J-20 is not stealthy and MKI "radar can detect them" - IAF chief. Again, no details at all so leave it up to the reader... I'm sure even a Mig-21 can detect F-22 when they are metres apart. The right kind of reader will not question it, so objective achieved. Chalk it up to another cheap shot and drumming up false bravado.

 

[Deino]

Can we get back to discussing the J-20.

I can only agree!!

Can we get back to discussing the J-20.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I think that there might be a misconception here---in detecting an aircraft and getting a 'lock' on it.

Could someone clarify this further---a scenario where an aircraft like the F22 is detected but the opponent cannot get a lock on it---or is this something that does not happen---like once it is detected---it is done in.